J.R.: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of 1000 Gurus.

J.R.: 0:05

Today's guest is a friend of mine, dorothy Ho, and I'll read her bio. At 21 years old, she dropped out of college and opened up her own dance studio, charade Dance Academy. Six years later, her academy has produced award-winning dancers. She's taught over 700 students in Garden Grove and is now expanding to offer an even more inspiring space for creativity. At a young age, she was placed in foster care due to her parents' incarceration, and Dorothy's life took a turn when her mother was released and she was then raised by a single parent. Despite facing financial challenges, her love for the arts never wavered, leading her to graduate from the Orange County School of Arts in 2015. Leading her to graduate from the Orange County School of Arts in 2015.

J.R.: 0:46

So this was such a wide-ranging conversation and, as you can tell, dorothy and I are really good friends, so we kind of go all over the place, main topics being the challenges that come with owning a dance studio, balancing hobbies versus purpose, managing personal finances, spending on what matters most to you, the importance of coaching and mentorship, and then we end off with some of Dorothy's best anime, movie and tv show recs. So it was a really good conversation. It gets kind of a little bit heavy and vulnerable near the end, but I think you guys can really get a lot from it and Dorothy had a lot of courage to share some vulnerable parts of herself and her story. So, without further ado, thank you for tuning in and hope you enjoyed this episode with Dorothy Ho. Hello everyone, welcome to 1000 Gurus.

J.R.: 1:36

Today, my guest is Dorothy Ho, so thank you so much for being here, dorothy, I really appreciate it. I just wanted to go into a little bit about how I know you. So what I know about you is that we met in 2020. We both judged at the TET Festival, so this was like right before COVID. It was like February or something like that for the talent show, but we had mutuals for a while, so I had known of you. And then I know that you have an extensive dance background. You've been dancing for a long time and you've had various jobs until you followed your dream and then opened your own dance studio and OC, where I've also taught briefly, and my girlfriend has also taught there too, and some of my friends and we catch up every so often and we have such really good conversations about different topics, so it was an easy choice for me to ask you to be on season one, so that's why we're here. Anything you want to add to that?

Dorothy: 2:31

No. Thanks for inviting me, jr. I'm excited to be a part of this.

J.R.: 2:35

Nice. Yeah, definitely, it's going to be fun, All right.

J.R.: 2:38

so I think the biggest thing that I want to know about or ask about is, you know, you following your dream, you opening up your own business? But maybe kind of, if I would love for you to walk us through that journey right Like your background growing up, how it led, how you got to dance, and then maybe like what was the catalyst for you to start your own business and be like you know what I'm just going to drop out and start a dance studio. This has been my dream. Could you walk us through that?

Dorothy: 3:06

Okay, one thing I do want to start off with is, when my mom was released from prison, she had this lifelong dream of being a dancer, and this is a classic story that a lot of immigrant families, I believe, have.

Dorothy: 3:20

It's something that they couldn't accomplish, and so they have their children do what their dreams were, and so my mom pushed me into taking dance classes and, even though we didn't have a lot, she really really forced me to do these things. And this is the next thing I really want to highlight, especially to, I mean, parents, or like even children or teenagers is I learned very quickly that you will like something when you're good at it, and so a lot of kids, they're forced to do piano lessons or drawing lessons, and they probably hate it, or they're resentful even, or drawing lessons, and they probably hate it, or they're resentful even, but like, as they continue to do it and they get good at that. That's when they're like oh, I'm good at this, I like being the best at this, I'm going to continue this, and I think that's where the line that I crossed into, that turned it into a passion, is, because I saw that, okay, I'm good at this, I like this.

J.R.: 4:26

Now, so you didn't like it initially. But no. Right. So so it was your, your mom's, kind of desire for you to get into dance.

Dorothy: 4:34

And then you're like I don't really like this.

J.R.: 4:35

And then you eventually got good at it, and then you enjoyed it.

Dorothy: 4:38

And that's the question I get a lot, even at my dance academy. A lot of parents come in and they're like I don't know if my kid will like this. And I would tell them well, your kid doesn't know what they're gonna like, they're just kids. I mean, they can't even like what's that word? Uh, you know, when you turn 18, like you are you. It's like you have the will to now choose to consume alcohol or drugs or whatever to do what you want to have.

J.R.: 5:04

like that self-directiveness, there's a word for it Okay.

Dorothy: 5:08

Well, either way, self-determination. When you're a child, you don't know what you like, and you won't know what you like, and so that's why you're in these classes, so that you can figure out.

J.R.: 5:20

You can try new things and see what resonates with you.

Dorothy: 5:26

So I think what I tell parents is like just find what your kid is good at, and then they'll like it, that's pretty much it.

J.R.: 5:30

That makes sense and they have to. I imagine you would recommend them to stay in, because you can't get good at anything if you're not, if you don't have some like consistency. You stay into it for a little bit at least, because you can't like day one oh, I suck at this, like everyone sucks this day one, even day two, even day 365. But if you can stick like day one oh, I suck at this, like everyone sucks at this day one, even day two, even day 365.

J.R.: 5:45

But if you can stick with something, then they might like it, or maybe they don't. So then how do you do you think there is a point where you can be like okay, this is enough time, this is not enough time, at least as a dance teacher? Studio owner.

Dorothy: 5:59

I think this is somewhere where people can start accusing me of being like oh yeah, you're an entrepreneur, you're just trying to make money but, I do encourage everybody to do it for a year at least, and then from a year you'll have at least your basic fundamentals to determine if you have the propensity for greatness or not, and x, y and z, and so that's what I do tell my clients and my friends, and even growing up I have a lot of girlfriends and guy friends whom did dance with me. Initially they didn't like it so they moved on elsewhere, but then their parents, you know, let them keep jumping from thing to thing and then now they're like the jack of all trades, but they're not great at anything. And I think in our American culture it's like you want to be great at something or at least leave your mark in some sort of like I don't know art form.

J.R.: 6:50

Yeah, want to be great at something or at least leave your mark in some sort of like I don't know art form. So yeah, I think a year is fair enough to say like just try something for a year, commit to it. You might not like it at first, but kind of like power through it to get to some level of skill so that you can make a better determination, right.

J.R.: 6:57

I agree, yeah and I get it. It's like some of these parents might be like, okay, you're just like a butcher selling meat, right, like obviously you want me to buy this thing that you're selling. But to be fair, it's like you could do this with any other art form for your child, like karate or whatever, but you do have to stay with it for a little bit, like just to get something.

J.R.: 7:15

Yeah, exactly Like fundamentally, you should stick with something On that topic. Like you know, you were enrolled into dance by your mom and then you kind of developed a passion for it. How did that transition throughout your like early school years into college and then like how did you make that switch into like okay, let me open up a business.

Dorothy: 7:34

So I guess, brief history for me. Yeah, I learned dance when I was younger. I was mainly doing Vietnamese traditional dance for my community and, I think, for us. We both know, inherently humans are so social, so I love socializing with my culture and getting to know how rich the Vietnamese culture can present itself. And then, as I was exposed to other forms of dancing that I learned to appreciate, that was when I decided that, ok, now I want to be good at the American side of things, and so I discovered hip-hop, and then I pursued this mentor who was open to teaching me up in West Covina, and then from there I decided okay, I really want to pursue this as a dancer and choreographer. And so that's when I switched gears from whatever art form I was doing before. I used to sing, and then I was like, okay, yeah, this is what I love.

Dorothy: 8:30

And while I was experiencing what it means to be like a dancer or a choreographer in that sense, I realized that teaching was something that I just had to do to make ends meet. And then that was when I decided, oh yeah, like I do like to teach children and I like socializing with my community in that aspect, and so that's when I opened my dance academy back in 2019, late 2018, and then how I am here today.

J.R.: 9:00

So I know from your background that you didn't go straight into, like, straight into opening a studio, right like. You had other careers, other jobs just here and there, like you said, just to make ends meet.

J.R.: 9:10

But then you said at a certain point you realized that dancing was your passion and you really wanted to open the studio. How did you like make that jump or that switch? I guess, coming from someone who, let's say, the audience is like, well, starting a business is very risky, you know what I mean. Like it's not a real traditional sort of path. And I say that with air quotes because for some people, like running a business runs in the family, right. Like people are like, yeah, they started their own business and it's not a big thing, but that's just a normal thing. But nowadays, in industrialized society, it's like everyone 90 plus percent of people get a job, right. Was it like that for you? Like you always knew you're going to start a business and you just had these sort of jobs just to pay the bills?

Dorothy: 9:49

Or was?

J.R.: 9:50

there like a switch that was made. You're like I'm tired of working these other jobs.

Dorothy: 9:53

I think this is something I'm still experiencing as I continue to interact with my family and other people. But I've come to understand that my family they just have to be their own boss. But I've come to understand that my family they just have to be their own boss. My mom unfortunately, she was swept up in like pyramid schemes, but because of that I was able to be exposed to like all these crazy leaders who just dictate what they want to dictate, which is the key takeaway. And then even my family, like my uncle he does real estate and he is predominantly his own boss. He does real estate and he is predominantly his own boss. And so, like in my specific family, I can see that everyone wants to be their own boss, versus like other families who take the traditional path of like working for others, being a nurse, being the teacher going to college and then, yeah, professional not to say that that's bad, but like that's different.

Dorothy: 10:39

So I know that when I was young I was taught and encouraged to do something of my own and be my own boss. So that was always there.

J.R.: 10:49

You were in this family background environment where it's like most of your family was like self-employed or they had that mindset, so like for you starting a business wasn't really like a big thing. It was like, oh, that's a normal progression in my personal career.

Dorothy: 11:03

I think there's one thing I want to distinguish really quickly before I forget about it. But one thing that I've kind of come to notice, especially with what I do, is okay, let's make this very clear I love dance, I love choreography, but I resent making choreography, choreography and I and I don't enjoy dancing because of the standards that I know I have for these art forms or I have for myself when creating choreography. And so, um, for me. I have charade dance academy and we were very fortunate this past season to win first place multiple times. Um, and so my dancers are award-winning, my choreography is award-winning but, like, the process behind that is just so dreadful. But I do it because I love. I love choreography and I love the standard that, um, that I have for myself and for other people.

J.R.: 11:57

I don't know if that's if that you love the art form, but I guess my my question is like so what aspects of that do you find dreadful?

Dorothy: 12:05

if you had to pick it apart, it's excruciating to have to sit there and like go through the process and think about what makes a winning set, what makes winning like dance moves, that has to be winning, and it's like oh, it's geared towards a competition as opposed to, like the artistry, of just doing it because you want to express or create something that's unique.

J.R.: 12:24

See, that's.

Dorothy: 12:25

That's very different too. I think, like for me as a choreographer and as a teacher and I and we talked about it earlier too it's something that I have to do. That's, um that with my best foot forward. So every time I do it, it's always best foot forward. How does this, how do I maximize xyz? How do I get this to be the absolute best? And so I never create things, just express myself in the sense where it's like for fun or for the leisure, like I take it very seriously so what you're saying is is that the reason why it's excruciating?

J.R.: 12:59

yes, gotcha, so it's like I said it's not demanding it's demanding it. There's like an expectation, there's a standard, there's a there's purpose, which is to win or to compete, whereas the choreography you like to do is different. There's a different intention.

Dorothy: 13:11

It's the idea that I said earlier with even my clients or people. It's like if you do something, you should want to be the best at it, and that's something that I put for myself and I encourage other people to be Be the best at it if you're gonna do it which I know is also debatable. Other people do for leisure, but I think that's just how I chose to navigate my life.

J.R.: 13:32

yeah but you're saying, that part is also excruciating yeah, it's crazy.

Dorothy: 13:38

Needing to be the best at something or putting yourself in a art form where it's also just dance is naturally competitive, and so that's kind of, I guess, how my mind was honed from an early age. That makes sense and I can resonate with that too, I think like part of me as well, sees like.

J.R.: 13:55

I'm very competitive by nature maybe you are fire, but because uh, yeah, we were talking about this earlier like what, what avatar, like nation? Do you fit in? Fire, earth, water, air? And Dorothy was like I'm not really sure, probably fire, but she wasn't really sure so.

Dorothy: 14:11

I was like maybe you're competitive. Probably fire.

J.R.: 14:15

She said she's a Slytherin too, so I guess that makes sense. So I guess, aside from dancing and choreography, wise, so I want to go back to the studio and being a business owner, what are some of like the lessons learned? Or I guess maybe what are the biggest challenges of being like a dance studio owner slash business owner, running the studio, but you also teach there and everything and you're managing.

Dorothy: 14:40

What are the biggest challenges and or what are some of the lessons that you've learned?

Dorothy: 14:42

So we've been in business for six years and I think this is something I mentioned with you even before, but I have a big problem right now of separating myself from my business.

Dorothy: 14:50

Right now, people look at charade like it's me and me like I'm charade, and I've had several instances with clients of mine that I had that I have relationships with and it'll be something really like trivial or small. It's like they're absent and in our policies we specifically state that if you're absent meaning you did not tell the studio beforehand then you do not get a makeup class. And so these parents, thinking that they're my friends or like I have a relationship with them, they'll just it'll go over their head and they'll ask me personally for the makeup later, thinking that I'll say yes because of our relationship. And it's hard for me. I have to think about like, oh, like, is this something that I should just give it to them because of like our relationship, or should I just be hard on the policies because I'm protecting my business, which is separate from me, and so, like, right now it's trying to detach myself from my business, and then I have to also juggle that so right.

J.R.: 15:46

I think that's very insightful because, especially for professionals, right, when we work with in a personal, like with clients, with people who we see and we can form those relationships like a friend, keeping that professional slash personal boundaries is very challenging, like you said, and but it's, and it's difficult, but it's kind of necessary because it's like, look, I as much as I want to be your friend, this is a business and this is, like you know, my brand and this is like we had to stick to the policy for a reason and I can't just be, you know, be making exceptions for everyone just because I want to be friends with you, right, and you're also, like you're very kind, caring, like personable person. I don't say people pleaser, you know what I mean but like you are a very person who considers other people. So I imagine that might be hard for you as well.

Dorothy: 16:31

I think, ironically and this is what a lot of, I think, entrepreneurs get cut for but it's like, oh yeah, you're just money hungry, you just want all this from other people. But it's like I'm an entrepreneur because I care about people and I want to enrich these children's lives and I want to get these kids learning dance, something that I love, and share this with them. But yeah, it is hard separating like the relationship side of things and like the business side of things. Um, and like the next thing I do want to do in my in the next coming months or years is to advocate more for like my boundaries as a person and as a teacher and like Charade's boundaries too as like a business.

J.R.: 17:10

I want to ask either if someone is trying to start their own business or maybe specifically open up their own dance studio, because obviously I know a lot of dancers and that's kind of like their aspiration. Do you have any pieces of advice or recommendations to them specifically, or actually we can start with that?

Dorothy: 17:31

I think the first thing you should know is the difference between being rich and feeling rich. I can tell you for a fact that I'm the last person to get paid, and I have chosen not to pay myself in the past year and a half due to renovations and paying other teachers first. So that's another thing too. It's like entrepreneurs oh yeah, they're going to make the top blah, blah, blah percent. And it's like, no, I have not paid myself and I live off of, like other means so that I can support this entity. But I still feel rich because I have this community of children and parents that I've built and curated and I have a space that I could dance at and also like let my friends come and hang out with me. But it's like, financially I'm not rich, you know.

J.R.: 18:19

Different things.

Dorothy: 18:20

Yeah, and I think that's another thing too. I think a lot of parents, or like my clients when I say parents, I'm not talking about mine, I'm talking about my clients at my studio they'll like think, like, oh yeah, dorothy, like they'll joke around sometimes, and they'll be like, oh yeah, like you can cover the meal, or oh, like you can just cover this for my dancer, or like whatnot. And it's like, oh my gosh, like again, separation of your business. So to you, if you want to open a dance studio, you really have to practice, or knowing in your head to separate yourself from the business eventually, or even from the get-go, so you don't take things personally, or so that you can better advocate for your boundaries.

J.R.: 18:58

That's a perfect segue. So, on speaking on finances and feeling rich, it's our next topic. What I have in my notes, based on what we discussed, is indulging finances, spending sort of thing I know you mentioned that you had like these, like one of your hobbies is the box art toy things.

Dorothy: 19:17

Yeah, unboxing.

J.R.: 19:18

Yeah, yeah. Or it's like you get a surprise thing and you're like, oh yeah, this is like one of my new hobbies and I really enjoy it, but also kind of like balancing, like budgeting personally, but also like what you want to spend your money on and being intentional with that.

Dorothy: 19:33

Yeah, so the first thing I'm going to say, though, is…. I started unboxing art toys because it brought joy to me and I really liked feeling lucky, and that was something that I did for a while, and I had YouTube videos of me unboxing these toys and expressing how I think I'm going to get this, but I don't get it, and it's like OK, I'm going to spend money and get another thing, so that ties in with my growing up. So that ties in with my growing up. I definitely had a scarcity mindset, where it's like oh, like I should enjoy this now, or I'm not going to have enough of this, so I have to, like, savor this. And why it correlates with me now is as an adult, you know, I make my own money, I have my own transportation, like I can just do it, and so it's like oh, I'm going to do this now, so I I buy all of it now, so I know I can have it, and I think that's another thing I want to talk about, too.

Dorothy: 20:28

These things, ultimately, looking back on, I know, was also things that I would do to take away myself from doing what I needed to do, which is I need to make choreography and I need to dance more, and someone that I really loved also pointed this out to me. There is this phase where I would go rock climbing or I would put a lot of money and time into unboxing, but he pointed out that me doing these things was just taking me away from like learning more about choreography or learning more about this thing that I need to do and what I have to do and I think that's something I want to talk about to our at least articulate which is like distinguishing hobbies that are taking you away from your purpose, what you're supposed to do, and then also maybe giving yourself these hobbies as a means to like decompress.

J.R.: 21:21

So just to put it out there Right hobbies as a means to like decompress. So just to put it out there right. So like, at a certain point some of these hobbies could just be a distraction from the thing that you know you need to do, slash your purpose. But the balance is also like. You do need to have those hobbies that energize you, that kind of decompress you, because you can't just run on all cylinders forever, right, you need to those things that like charge you up, right?

Dorothy: 21:42

I think that's something I'm still meditating on and I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that?

J.R.: 21:47

so it's just finding the balance.

Dorothy: 21:48

Basically is what you like you're thinking or being able to at least distinguish when you're doing something to take away from, like your ultimate purpose, right?

J.R.: 21:58

that's a very good question. I think the way I personally approach it is I try to maximize the amount of time that I spend on things that I know give me energy and it's like those. Okay, I'm not defining it as like hobby versus purpose. I think of it as do I enjoy doing this thing, do I get something out of it? Because life is short, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow, you know. Enjoy your life, right, but at the same time, I know what my priorities are, which is like to be healthy, to make money to support myself and my future and to spend time with people who I enjoy and build those relationships.

J.R.: 22:30

But I also enjoy things like talking to people, stand up comedy, bowling, dancing, just various things, right, and I think, as long as I'm taking care of my basics, like I schedule going into the gyms and I'm obviously doing work and I'm doing things to support myself, but I'm also carving out time that charges me up, doing the things that charge me up, because otherwise I won't have the energy to do the things that I dread doing, that I have to do. I'm fortunate enough to have found the intersection of all these things where I can make money and build up passions on my hobbies, like build like a whatever and it might not turn anything. Turn into anything but it might. But I've supported myself financially where I can do these things freely and not be guilty about oh, I'm wasting my time, because I know that my larger purposes take time. But also, if those things really charge me up, maybe that is my purpose.

J.R.: 23:23

Like, maybe these things that I enjoy is my purpose, because I know that my underlying theme is learning, teaching, growing and helping others, and if everything that I do, I enjoy it and or can potentially make money from it, if I'm doing that, I'm not losing my day Like I spend my day effectively. But so one thing that I want to ask you, too is like is this idea you said scarcity, mindset and man finances and money is such a big thing that I love talking about too? And then we talked about like two books that I love and recommend all the time for money is the Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel, and then I Will Teach you to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi, two books that I always recommend to people when they come to me for like asking for financial advice and like how to sort out their personal finance.

J.R.: 24:07

I'm not a financial advisor, but I love learning about personal finance and I feel like there's a lot of ROI in helping people just understand the basics, because they can make and save thousands and tens of thousands of dollars down the line, and I know you've mentioned that. I recommended a book and it helped you out a lot, and you or the show. Yeah me, so check out my book summary website. Marley and Chriscom. I do a lot of book summaries. I love learning, but anything you want to share on like what you've learned and how you've applied it in your own life.

Dorothy: 24:33

Yes, you were the one that showed me the Netflix show by Rumi and it was life changing and, and, yes, so like, your recommendations are always amazing and it's very it supplements my life, jr, so, and that's why I love you as my friend, like your, your perspective and your thoughts on like finances, relationships have always contributed to like how I navigate my life, um, so just wanted to put that out there. But, yes, what was your?

J.R.: 25:00

question Basically like what was your takeaway from that and how do you apply it in your own?

Dorothy: 25:04

life. Okay, so call me crazy, but okay, but I love experiences and that is the one thing, especially as an entrepreneur, that you're trying to curate. It's this experience that you can share with others. This experience that you can share with others. And so, off of that topic, ramit heavily talks about, like, if this is something you want to experience, then it doesn't matter, the price doesn't matter, you should just do it. And so, for me, the experience is opening these blend boxes and having that excitement. So I'm going to do this or I'm going to spend money on this, because it gives me this experience and that's how I navigate my life. But it can be a hindrance. So this is what I do specifically. I love eating food, and sometimes I will order over order food, but I will force myself to eat it because I believe the best experience and enjoying it is now, when the chicken is crispy, hot and it's like you got to eat it now, and so I would. I would overeat, um, or it would be detrimental in that aspect, right, so there's a balance there that we can probably talk about, um, and then I want to share this really quick.

Dorothy: 26:17

In the beginning of the year, I realized that, oh, as a dancer, I need to look the part, I need to look fashionable, and so I started to scroll through Instagram looking for haircut haircut styles, and sooner or later, instagram was catching on that I was in the market for a hairstylist and so, as I continue to look through hundreds and hundreds of profiles in like that week, I began to realize the people who stood out to me were people who were advertising like an experience, and so naturally, I eventually chose a person who advertised the best experience and I went to them and I had the best haircut of my life.

Dorothy: 27:01

I thought I looked really great. Afterwards and I can go into the details maybe later on, like the key factors that played into how I chose this, but that whole experience of choosing the best hairstylist I like immediately put that into my business, and so right now we're rebranding and I'm trying to rebrand my dance academy to to also curate the same like what experiences I want to give to my kids and and publish that and market that so that way, other people who are like me can come to my studio and be like yes, this is the experience I want my dancer to have, and that does stem directly from your recommendation of the netflix show. So yeah, you're the catalyst. So thank you, jr thank you.

J.R.: 27:46

I think you're giving me too much credit, but I'll take it. I appreciate it.

Dorothy: 27:49

It was. You were very pivotal. That show your recommendations. It. That's kind of what happened and that's why I tell you like you helped me navigate my life and you don't even know so um, yeah, thank you for that thing.

J.R.: 28:03

One of my biggest takeaways from the book and I think you've touched upon this that I just want to reiterate is conscious spending, is what he calls it, ramit, and that's what both of us do. Like I also think about the same thing. Like is what I'm spending worth my money? Because I want to maximize my money, right, and so if it's not going to make my life better, easier, at least it's going to give me an experience that I know that I want. But, with that being said, the balance is that, from the top down, I have my finances set up so that I have the leeway, like I'm fortunate enough to be able to splurge a little bit on these experiences, like yourself, and be like okay, this thing is worth putting money into because it's a good ROI, like a good return on my investment, because it's going to make my life easier, save me time, whatever. But I think it's important for people to understand that if you're conscious, if you're very intentional with how you spend your money, you can make that money back and or improve your quality of life. But you have to be intentional about it. But you have to be intentional about it and it's like you said, if someone else is splurging could be useless to you, but to you your splurging could be something that's really good but someone else doesn't like, and that's totally fine. Like for me, I have no problem spending like $10 on popcorn at the movie theater because I love the movie experience and I love going to the theaters. But someone else would be like yo, but someone has to be like yo. That's a waste of money and I agree it is a waste of money. But I'm also set up my finances so that I can splurge on that because I know everything else is taken care of and I'm not going to go, look into my bank account and be like, oh, that $10 popcorn really took me out.

J.R.: 29:31

So I want to transition to our third topic, which is the importance of mentors. You mentioned it briefly in your dance journey, like, I think, high school or something where you found a mentor and I think you've had multiple mentors and actually, to the point of, what I respect about you is that you're always open to learning and growing and finding mentors and learning from other people. I think that's what sets you apart from a lot of other people who are probably in the same place in their life is that you're constantly trying to grow and learn, which is why I think you are at the place you are now, so I think you're successful and you're going to get more successful as you go along because you have this mindset. What I want to ask is how does one find a mentor, keep a mentor and or, like, how do you get the most out of a mentorship? Because I know that you said that's been a big thing on your growth experience.

Dorothy: 30:18

I think the first thing I want to start off with is a mentor should be someone who's generous with their time and it's not transactional, so they shouldn't be expecting anything from you other than to pour out and I guess yeah, to give to you right To help you grow. And I have the privilege of experiencing that in my life, and that's how I met one of the biggest mentors in my life, who is still very influential to me today, even though he's not currently a part of my life right now.

J.R.: 30:51

Having a mentor is important. They should be, they should be and they should be generous. So how does one go about finding a mentor, like finding the right one. Like you know, there could be people who are like be people like I can help you out, but then it might be transactional?

Dorothy: 31:04

right then, I think that's the case. It's like seeing if they're transactional, or seeing how much time they're willing to donate, um, and if and if they don't tick off those boxes, then you're better off looking for another person who can generously pour their time into you.

J.R.: 31:19

Are there any specific characteristics that you might advise or recommend people look for in looking for a mentor? And maybe this is too broad, because I know that we're talking about dance mentorship, right, but I guess mentors can come in various shapes and sizes, but I guess I'm sitting in for the audience when it's like, okay, well, a mentor sounds great, but where do I start?

Dorothy: 31:39

You know what? I can just say it from my personal experience. For me growing up, it was like I was always looking for a mentor. I was always looking for a teacher to take me under their wing and show me the ropes, and I asked for it. So I would go out and I would ask for it a lot, and a lot of people don't have, you know, a lot of time, so they would give me a little bit and then move on with their life or they wouldn't keep in contact, um, but I was fortunate enough to eventually find one who was going to stick around for the long run and was going to show me everything that they knew.

Dorothy: 32:15

And now that I'm on the other side of things. So I'm 27 now and I'm about the same age that my mentor was when, um, they found me. And I'm kind of sitting around and I'm 27 now and I'm about the same age that my mentor was when they found me. And I'm kind of sitting around and I'm like, wow, no one's coming to me, like no one's asking for me to mentor, because I will and I can and I want to, and I'm constantly looking for, like, the next person who can take over my business or who wants to be in my position, but no one's asking for it, and so I guess what I'm saying is you should just ask and continue to ask if you're looking for a mentor. Like no mentor is going to go on their knees and be like I choose you to be my next, blah, blah, blah. Like you should ask for it, yeah, so I think that's the first step is asking just and or identifying.

J.R.: 33:00

I would say I can throw this in like if you have an idea of what you want, success leaves clues, so you can. You can easily see the people who have the results that you want. You'd be like hmm, this person is doing something that I think I want to do and they're successful at it. Maybe I should figure out if a mentorship relationship is possible and ask and learn it's a two-way street.

Dorothy: 33:20

Come with humility, right, yes, like you got to ask for it. And then that also opens up people who don't even know that they could be mentors. It's like oh, yeah, yeah, I can.

J.R.: 33:30

I think that's very important and also to I guess, even in my next okay so I like this idea of mentorship and I kind of related to coaching because, okay so, I'm a, I'm a relationship coach as well, but in my life I found the importance of mentors and or coaches is so huge for me because I can try to like figure something out and bang my head against the wall for weeks, days, years, whatever, but when I was like, okay, look, I just need a coach, I need a mentor, and then I can find someone who's doing that and learn from them. It's shortcut the process so much and like, kind of the point of this podcast right, which is, if you just ask the right questions, people are willing to give. Like you said, I'm willing to be a mentor. There's no one asking me, but people are willing to pour into you. You just have to look for them and ask and they can give you the foundational principles of how to get to where you are, where you want to be, or get to where you are currently right, like um, like I had a friend of mine just on your sin, he's a dance instructor.

J.R.: 34:28

He teaches beginners as well, and if you just go to someone who's amazing dancer, for example, and then they can like look, I can lay you out how to become a better dancer. You, if you don't, if you don't come to class, if you don't ask for it, if you don't put yourself out there, you're't come to class. If you don't ask for it, if you don't put yourself out there, you're never going to get that sort of pathway that'll shortcut this process.

J.R.: 34:46

So, yeah, I totally believe in like coaching, mentoring and all that stuff and then being a mentor, when you see those opportunities too. I don't know if it's the same for you, but for me, like as I'm putting myself out there and learning and growing, sometimes people come to me and they ask for advice and I'm like, oh great, I have experience in this. Or sometimes it's just, I see, you know people three steps behind where I was at before when I was younger, and I can listen to them. And then sometimes they'd like they'll, they'll be finished venting or you know whatever. And then they'll ask like, do you have any advice? I'm like, sure, here's my perspective, perspective. You can take it or leave it.

J.R.: 35:20

And then they're like, wow, you actually know a lot, like I want to learn more for you, actually no meaning like I my own, my own philosophy is I don't try to give advice unless people ask, but I'm always here to listen. But then naturally that turns into people being like wait, you actually know a lot more and wow, you're like a wealth of information, and so kind of naturally we form that relationship.

Dorothy: 35:40

At least that's been my experience. Yeah, I mean, that's with us too. I'm like, oh my gosh, jer, you knew this. Wow, why didn't I ask you before this?

J.R.: 35:51

I think it's like I don't want to, like I want to be the type of mentor that I would want to have, which is not like hey, look at me, I'm so smart and successful. I'm like I'm just here to live and just be a good friend.

Dorothy: 36:07

And or how to anything else on how to be a good mentor. I know I kind of rammed a little bit. I think as long as mentors know or at least if you happen to stumble being one, it's like, just be generous with your time and your expectations. To like this is a non transactional thing, and I think that's something that us too, and our in our social interactions now, like a lot of people, are very transactional, and I'm, and I can see a lot of people getting hurt in this kind of thing where they're giving and they're not seeing anything returning and it's like well, no, no, no, like you got to remember. This is like you're giving, this is a gift.

J.R.: 36:39

So then, why be a mentor? Like what do you get out of it? Because it seems like it's just a give, give, give. It's kind of like. I have a parallel which is like parenting Good parenting is kind of like that right when it's like you give, you shouldn't expect anything in return.

J.R.: 36:53

But naturally, as humans, we kind of desire that reciprocation and also a good I don't want to say relationship. But for me, like with how I see some of my friends, or some of my littles on my dance team, like who I see as like little sisters, little brothers, who I want to be that sort of mentor or person, just to like give into them, I have to force myself to like be, like, okay, it's not transactional, like you said, I just want to give and be there for them. Otherwise it's like I don't need to expect anything in return because that's not the relationship that I want, right, like I have friends who I can rely on, I have family and all this other stuff. But if I'm trying to give to someone I can't be that transactional. But I guess, like the first question, then what do you get out of it?

Dorothy: 37:35

it's so funny that you say that, and that brings us back to what we talked about earlier and what I'm trying to make my business better at, which is you get the experience and this might tie into religion but you have a life. God gave you life. I believe in Christ, I believe in Jesus and I believe that we were given life so that we can experience love, and that's the end goal of all this. You need to experience love, and that experience being a mentor is that part of the equation. You need to experience love and and that experience being a mentor is that part of the equation. Like, you got to experience this love and and you get, and, as a parent, you get to experience this love that you can't get from anywhere else. Um, and then, so yeah, that's pretty much very, very short answer Like that is the gift.

J.R.: 38:18

The gift is the giving. Yes, the experience of love, of love, yeah.

Dorothy: 38:23

Seeing what you're capable of, but also seeing, with a loving heart, what they can do with this knowledge that you've shared with them, and whatever.

J.R.: 38:32

Yeah, I like this because I think love is a topic we could talk about for the entire episode, for one entire episode, maybe in a future podcast, but I would like to get your thoughts on what love is. You know, we kind of touched upon it a little bit, because I also have my own thoughts on it and we've talked about this before. So, like what, how do you define love, then, in this context?

Dorothy: 38:50

I think, for humans, or like for us and this is me now I'm speaking in from like God's perspective, like from God's perspective God loves us, and what God does is all loving, and so that is the pinnacle of love. And for us as humans, sometimes when we express love or when we give love, it can be tainted with our sinfulness or whatever, and so, if I could just pick the things that I've experienced that I consider love, it's always characteristics that I can see pertaining to God, which is, like I said, when you love generously, without strings attached, no transactions.

J.R.: 39:27

Not conditional.

Dorothy: 39:28

Yes, yeah, unconditional.

J.R.: 39:30

So how do we? This is a big question, obviously. Maybe we won't answer it. So how does one love like that, unconditionally, in the context of friendships, relationships, mentorships, whatever?

Dorothy: 39:41

I think for me myself personally, I can't imagine anyone giving this kind of love, and unless they know who god is and unless you know who jesus is and I but I also know a lot of people who don't know jesus, who don't know god, and they can do these things but and I don't want to talk crap about them but I like to think that maybe they're doing that because they also like it when people praise them and that's why they do it. It's like, oh yeah, like I did this, I gave this, I do this, and even though it's not transactional to that person that they gave it to, but they brag about it so they get validation. But like, I think that's another aspect of why like to me, unless you know god, or unless you know jesus and you know the pinnacle for love, then you can do this without needs of validation praise the praise, the societal stuff or what accolades, because it's intrinsic.

J.R.: 40:31

It's actually like the rewards you get internally, which is like knowing that it's the right thing to do. It's it reflects like god's love and all the other stuff. Yeah, maybe for part two we can go deeper into that and stuff, because I think it'll be a fascinating topic. Anything else on that before we go to rapid fire?

Dorothy: 40:47

No, let's do it Okay cool.

J.R.: 40:49

This is the section Dorothy was dreading the most, which is kind of funny because it's rapid fire. It's usually easy, but she's like I don't know what to answer because I'm thinking about maximizing these questions that you're saying she's like I need to get okay. So it's the first question. The billboard question is if you could put a sign up for millions of people to see, what would it say?

Dorothy: 41:06

okay, so this is like something I'm so excited to talk about because I saw this stupid question. Okay, it's not stupid because it's dumb, but it's. It's stupid to me because I couldn't answer it fast enough.

Dorothy: 41:16

But okay. So I used to be a constant church goer and I'm trying to go back to church now, but anyways, back then I've heard one of my pastors share that when they make speeches or, I guess, the sermons, they need to be broad enough so that everybody can connect to their message. And I think that was when I was like oh yeah, like okay, so what I need to put on this billboard needs to be broad enough for people to embrace a positive, uh, change in their life. Because before I was thinking like oh, I could just say something like believe in jesus or love jesus or jesus saves, but like who? When you read that, like what does that? It doesn't inspire something how effective is that?

Dorothy: 41:57

I don't think it's that effective. So now to answer your question, my epiphany is the billboard will say embrace the transformation. So that way people can grab that positively and then take action from there.

Dorothy: 42:15

So it also encourages action and it's also vague enough to apply to everybody who reads that so I think up to interpretation yes not specifically this transformation, but it's whatever how they interpret it and it's going to be positively, whether the transformation acknowledges like that you're doing something bad and then you have to transform to do something good, or you're transforming into, like, getting more healthy or doing xyz. So I think that is positive enough to extract value from yeah, she's a business owner, guys.

J.R.: 42:47

This is how she thinks. She thinks of roi oh my gosh um. Next question what is your favorite failure or something challenging that you learned the most from?

Dorothy: 42:56

there's a lot that comes into mind, but I think the one failure that I keep thinking about a lot is actually pertaining to my business, specifically with how I interact with my clients, and so there is this one instance. Okay, if you're my client at Charade, I'm not talking about you.

J.R.: 43:13

But definitely not you, it's someone else. It's 100% of my clients. It's not you, it's someone else, it's 100% of my clients.

Dorothy: 43:18

This is someone else who happened when I first started the business, and I think they were unhappy with how I navigated my curriculum, and so they expressed their unhappiness with it, and I really wish that I just told them hey, that's how I do things, and if you trust in this process, then you can be here. If you don't, then leave. But I was apologetic and I was like oh, I'm sorry that you didn't like this, I'm so sorry, and I was just expressing a lot of remorse for it.

Dorothy: 43:50

But I wish I could do that again and not be as apologetic and be more of an advocate for myself and be vocal about what my boundaries are and what I'm doing to serve. I don't know if it's my favorite failure, but it's something I have thought about a lot and it's something that has happened in like bits and pieces throughout being in business for six years, right.

J.R.: 44:09

It's something that's recurring, that you're learning and been reflecting on. Do you have a biggest regret? And or, if you could reduce something, what would you do differently, do you?

Dorothy: 44:18

have a biggest regret? And or, if you could reduce something, what would you do differently? Okay, this is more, um, personal. I don't know how people will see me after this, but I'm just going to be honest and transparent.

Dorothy: 44:27

I was in love with my ex partner for many, many years.

Dorothy: 44:32

We were together for nine years and after a while, um, I started to see that our relationship wasn't heading towards marriage like how I thought it was when we first began dating.

Dorothy: 44:48

There was a lot of promises for marriage and it coming soon, and I thought they were going to be very successful, and so I stood by very loyally, and I like to believe I was very, very loyal, for a large part of our relationship was having doubts about our promises for marriage, and I was having doubts about them being able to financially take care of this hypothetical family that we could have in the future. And and I started to think like, oh, like my skin, my looks, like everything's so finite, like I needed to act. I needed to go out and figure out what else could be there for me, but I was too much of a coward to voice that with my partner, and so, unfortunately, it did lead to me cheating, and that's something I 1000% regret and if you're listening to this, I really hope that you can be very open and transparent with your partner, because I did love him very much, and I think that's something that I regret and I wish I just could do differently.

J.R.: 46:04

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I know that's a very vulnerable thing to to open up about, but to your courage. I think that's very valuable to the audience as well. It's like saying, hey, we all make mistakes and I definitely regret regret this. Hopefully you can learn from my mistakes, which is, I think what you're saying is communicating what your needs are, communicating with your partner and trying to figure that out, and don't let it lead you down a path that you're going to regret later on, right?

Dorothy: 46:31

Yeah, I was largely a coward and I and I feel like I enabled my partner by not telling them how I felt or being transparent with like what I think this is leading towards and I also know like this is very bad. Like, yeah, I'm a business owner and I'm sharing all these great things about myself, but like this is something I was like. Oh no, like this is the truth and this is something I do want you to be able to learn from.

J.R.: 46:55

Thank, you for that. Okay, this might be the same, but you can interpret it differently, answer differently, or we can move on. If you could give your younger self advice, what would it be now?

Dorothy: 47:05

any time period, any age my younger self advice okay, it would be towards myself when I was first learning to dance, because I was so resentful for my mom to put me into something I did not even like I would have. Just I wish I could tell her to like shut the fuck up, dorothy. Just like fucking do this and like get it over with, and like you're gonna and it's gonna be fruitful. Um and I think you see that a lot with like kids now, they're like, they're like, they're like oh, what's that? They're throwing tantrums and they're headbanging or they're like stomping their feet because they're so angry. But like I wish I could just tell these kids or myself back then just do it and it'll be good, like this is going to be fine.

J.R.: 47:45

So yeah, which is I'm sure you tell your kids that all the time like just do it.

Dorothy: 47:49

Yeah.

J.R.: 47:49

Again, it's hard to get that message across.

Dorothy: 47:51

Yeah.

J.R.: 47:52

Makes sense, any habits or routines that are key to you getting the results that you have now, like any strategies, mindsets, advice that you would give to people.

Dorothy: 48:08

I think I'm different in the sense that when I see something that needs to be done, I just do it, and I do it right away, and I make the plans to do it. So I put it into my schedule like, okay, this is something you have to do repetitively. And so I think the first aspect is knowing if you want to change your life something you have to do repetitively and so I think the first aspect is knowing if you want to change your life, you have to actually make the plans to add it to your schedule, to wake up earlier for it. So and I think that's what sets us apart from Olympians too I think I heard this from somewhere, but like someone was saying that the reason why Olympians are so great is because they can do that.

Dorothy: 48:38

They can just set aside the time instantly to do this or to practice this, to get better at this, and whereas a lot of people they sit around and they they don't take initiative as fast. And something as small as that. It's not even like they're your propensity for greatness or anything. It's just how fast are you at taking initiative?

J.R.: 48:57

who? Who would you call successful, and how do you define success?

Dorothy: 49:01

Like anyone, come to mind that you're like that person's successful, I think you're very successful, jared, but I can't brag about you on your own show. That defeats the purpose. So my next person I'm going to talk about who I believe is so successful, is my dear friend, ronnie Ronnie Hay. He is also an entrepreneur, but what I admire about him is that he's so mature and navigating his personal friendships, his is um, and his work like. He is so good at knowing when time's up and he, the way that he goes about his time, is like how he goes about money. It's like this if this doesn't maximize my time or, I guess, is that even a phrase if if this is not adding value, then I'm going to stop this immediately. So he knows when to cut things off.

Dorothy: 49:46

He doesn't care about like how it would make other people feel per se, not saying that he doesn't care about people, but but he's intentional with like, maximizing his time and energy yeah, he advocates for himself and he's putting himself out first and he cares about himself more than other people, and I think that's something that I struggle with, like I care about more how other people feel, and I think that's also what led to my relationship with my ex-partner to go bad is because I cared more about them versus like how that would present me or put me myself in in the future.

J.R.: 50:22

So I consider them very successful okay, so people can put their needs first and and do all the things like that, like maximizing their time and be intentional. If time and money weren't an obstacle, what would you be doing now?

Dorothy: 50:37

if time and money wasn't an obstacle, then I would be doing what I need to do, which is to create choreography and to make my business better. But I guess, to answer your question and to entertain the spirit of it, I think you're what you want me to say is I should be traveling right now. I should go to japan?

J.R.: 50:54

I don't want you and I and I should honest I just think.

Dorothy: 50:58

I mean, I think it's like multifaceted, like it's like what you wish you could do, I wish I could travel and I wish I could experience all these other things that God put us here to experience and to love and to serve. But like I think, like I was saying earlier, like I'm kind of distracting myself right now from doing what I need to do. So it's too late. I got to do this and I got to, but I want to do this.

J.R.: 51:22

How do you spend most of your time?

Dorothy: 51:25

How dare you call me out? How dare you?

J.R.: 51:28

You can be like actually don't even dance at all.

Dorothy: 51:32

Okay, well, and this is again for you, if you're wanting to open a dance studio. For you, if you're wanting to open a dance studio. A lot of my time I wake up in the morning and it's all geared towards making my instructors better, keeping them accountable, taking care of my clients. I wake up and the first thing I think about is, oh my God, I need to answer these emails, or, oh my God, I need to plan out this curriculum for these students, and so I'm doing a lot of serving right now. And what I wish I could do is I guess, which relates to the other question is I wish I could work out again and like do things that I want to do and things that I like to do. So that's another aspect where, yeah, I'm doing a lot of serving right now. Great.

J.R.: 52:13

In your business. My one of my first guests, my friend Ronnienie no different, ronnie, because he's an entrepreneur too. He has several businesses and he's like you know, when I'm not working my business, I'm worrying about my business yeah, that's exactly.

Dorothy: 52:25

As a business owner, I'm sure you can relate it's just constantly on your mind yes, it is like, even right now I have things that we have to do after this. That's like oh, I gotta do that, so it's all good.

J.R.: 52:37

Just a heads up for, I guess, business owners too, that it is not a full-time job. It's more than a full-time job, it's like an all the time job yeah. All right. So last rapid fire question Any favorite books, movies, videos, articles, media resources, whatever that you recommend or share the most?

Dorothy: 52:55

So I love experiences and right now there's this one uh anime that I really enjoy watching and it's called oshinoko.

Dorothy: 53:05

If you haven't heard about it um, long story short, so I don't spoil it it follows the life of the of these people who are about to, who are wanting to be famous, and all like the struggles that pertain to like, uh, like the, the crazy things that happen when you are wanting to be famous, whether it's like the politics or like the real life famous, like in an idol sense, an idol sense, an actor's sense, and it's like things that can happen to you when you're pursuing these things, whether it's like you could base suicidal thoughts or politics, or like the aspect of that that people don't see, but what you wish people knew, and so I think that experience is something that motivates me to advocate for myself in my own workplace. So I really like watching that show, I really like watching sci-fi and like, um, gory stuff. So I enjoyed the alien romulus movie recently that came out, and I also am watching altered carbon right now, which also talks about oh thumbs up which also talks about like this whole like thought experiment.

Dorothy: 54:15

So I really love thought experience. But other than those things that I'm watching currently, like my best things that I would recommend was, um, there's this anime that I watch with my ex-partner that he introduced me to, called psychopaths, which also explores the same concepts of like what happens if the government can figure out you're about to commit a crime before you even do it. So the ethical question is do you just you kill them? Do you like incarcerate them before they even do? Xyz? Um, I also really enjoy death note.

Dorothy: 54:45

Um, I, in terms of animation, I love animation so much that, like when I watch movies, it always tells me where we are and how we're and how we're doing in terms of storytelling. So some of the best movies I've seen recently are like Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse, blue-eyed Samurai on Netflix, where it's just kind of like that idea that I was talking about with choreography, like I hate doing it because it makes me I have to put out my best work and I and I can kind of understand the struggles with the people who make those movies or those shows. Blue-eyed samurai and spider-man into the spider-verse it's like wow, like that's imagine, creating something like that, like you probably hated that process, just to make something so great.

J.R.: 55:31

So, yeah, that's it nice you are a like a treasure trove of media recommendations. I love it and and you're very philosophical. I like your thoughtfulness.

Dorothy: 55:39

Thanks, Jay. Are you going to actually watch them though?

J.R.: 55:41

No, it's on my list. Yeah, them meaning like everything you mentioned. I will say Ocean of Coats is on the top of my list because you recommended it and I've heard good things. Good Cool, any questions? So let's wrap this up. I like ending with gratitude. Shout out to my mom Taught me that. So, dorothy, what are you grateful for?

Dorothy: 55:59

I spoke about him a lot, but I'm grateful for my mentor, or my past mentor and my past lover. I think he really, really inspired me to continue where I'm at right now, and he gave me the laying foundations on how to pursue choreography and how to treat other people, and even with my relationship with God, gave me the laying foundations on how to pursue choreography and how to treat other people and, um, and even with my relationship with god, like he was the one who, um, opened my eyes towards this idea of a god and somebody greater than me, um, but besides that, I'm grateful for my family and I'm grateful for the space that I have right now to give, to give back to my community and my passion um any final ask for the audience or any final takeaway you would like them to have from this conversation okay, this might be so stupid, but, like Jesus, jesus loves you and God loves you and you know, seek him.

Dorothy: 56:57

And even for, and even for me, like I shared earlier, like I'm struggling right now, coming to church and being a part of, like this community that I know God wants for Christians or for us, but even in spite of that, I still fight for my relationship with my God. So that's it, it's not stupid at all.

J.R.: 57:18

I think it's good. Speak what you feel like is important to you yes, thank you jr um cool. So like uh, where can people find you? I know we'll have links to everything, but you want to do any plugs for where they can find you?

Dorothy: 57:29

reach out if they want to yeah, so, um, I do have a business charade dance academy, but only reach out to them if you want to learn how to dance. But if you want to reach me specifically, then you can contact me by my email.

J.R.: 57:45

Um, it is premiumheartva at gmailcom all right, cool inbox can get flooded then sure I'll be your mentor if you ask she's open for mentorship.

J.R.: 57:59

Um, all right, so that's it. Thank you so much, dorothy, for being on the show. I really appreciate it to my audience. Thank you guys for joining hope. You guys learned a lot. Uh, just a reminder to be kind to others, and especially yourself, and also that you can always learn something from someone, as long as you just take the time to listen. So thank you guys for tuning in and I'll see you in the next one.