J.R.: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to another great episode of 1000 Gurus with me, your host, jr Yonacruz. So today's guest is Eric Pan. Eric is a soon-to-be graduated senior at UCLA. He's served on the executive board for both a consulting and investment banking organization and is an incoming associate at Boston Consulting Group. Outside of his professional life he's a dancer on choreos and ACA all day.

J.R.: 0:27

So I've known Eric since he was 18, a first year at UCLA about four years ago, and now he's a graduating fourth year and will be off becoming a working adult in a few months. So I was happy to interview Eric about his college experience and witness how much he's grown over these last few years, which made me very proud, even as my youngest guest. He knocked this one out of the park and gave a lot of great insights about moving to LA from Chicago, the differences, what strategy consulting is all about finding balance, leadership and all things, people skills. It was such a great conversation and especially applicable if you are early in your educational career, like in high school or early undergraduate, as Eric offers a lot of solid advice on how to navigate that stage of life. So, without further ado, hope you enjoy this episode with Eric Pan. All right, eric, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, thanks for being here.

J.R.: 1:21

You are the first guest that I picked up chauffeur style, so yeah, you got the vip service all the way from ucla, but yeah, so I appreciate it. I'm glad to have you on the show.

J.R.: 1:31

Like I mentioned before we were recording, you are my youngest guest, right behind lex, who I think is like 22 23, so congrats on that achievement well, thank you, even unlocked but yeah, I was also gonna say I was waiting for the cameras to start recording, which is you do a lot of dancing obviously k-pop and then aca and all this other stuff. The audience would have already heard your bio before this, but I feel like you're like a younger version of me, because when I was your age, I was also on three different teams and just doing a lot of that stuff. So, but obviously you do a lot more. So I will go into how I know you and then you can clarify anything.

J.R.: 2:12

So when we first met is when you joined Choreo's Lemon Era in 2021, and you were first year and now you're blossomed to a fourth year, so that's awesome. We've danced together on Choreo since then, so it's been fun. We've also had some good conversations about like your career path, like consulting, your different clubs, your career path, your leadership in different orgs, dance and some other stuff, and the main reason why I wanted you on the show is I feel like your insights into like the consulting field is very invaluable, and you're also a very thoughtful person, which I, which is what, which is what I appreciate, but also that's the type of people I love having conversations with. You're very accomplished.

Eric: 2:49

You're not even out of college yet, almost in a few weeks, like you said, and, yeah, I enjoy hearing your insights. So any clarifications? Yeah, well, thank you for the warm introduction, jr. I'm really glad to be on the podcast and I think our conversations are always a two-way street. I think JR has given me a lot of wisdom throughout the years. Just starting out as a freshman all the way now to becoming a senior Definitely gave me a few tenets that I live by now.

Eric: 3:10

So, really grateful to be on the show and to have another thoughtful conversation with you, nice.

J.R.: 3:16

Yeah, excited, cool, all right. So, if no other clarifications, I'll go into first topic, which is basically Eric, your origin story moving to LA. Because you're not from LA, I'm not, no, yeah. And then your path to consulting. So first question like where did you grow up? What were your main influences that led to where you are today?

Eric: 3:35

Yeah, wow, so I grew up. Actually I was born in Pennsylvania, on the campus of Penn State University, so my dad is a huge Nittany Lions fan. Wait, seriously, on the campus. Yeah, so literally on my birth certificate it says University Park.

J.R.: 3:50

Oh, okay.

Eric: 3:51

Yeah, I think a couple of years back, when I was still in high school, we went to New York, pennsylvania, went to all these nostalgic places for my parents just to see sort of my origin story. So that was definitely a fun, interesting vacation. I feel like not many people do that, so it's just interesting. They took a picture at the hospital. I was just standing in front holding a peace sign. Okay, so there's a hospital on the campus. I think it's either on the campus or like very nearby. And then, yeah, I ended up moving to Chicago and I think in high school is really when my passion for business really blossomed. I think I'm really a people oriented person.

Eric: 4:27

I actually went to a STEM boarding school so I had to take the SAT to get into my high school, which isn't super traditional. So my parents really wanted me to be, you know, an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer I think a pretty, pretty stereotypical fields for you know an East Asian family. But because I felt so compelled to interact with people, I really wanted to commit to business. So, going into undergrad I think a lot of undergrads are pigeonholed into a couple different fields, like either that's investment, banking, consulting, accounting and I sort of felt that pressure to make a decision really early on in my undergrad. But I discovered that you know that that pressure is sort of something that's self fabricated. You can really just explore all these three fields and determine what's best for you. So I joined a consulting club my freshman year that I ended up serving as president for my junior and senior year.

Eric: 5:24

And then later on I actually joined a finance club too, just so I could get a more holistic education about those different fields, and I did an investment banking internship and I really enjoyed it. But I felt like I wanted something a little bit more client facing, so that's why I ended up choosing consulting. But that's sort of what pushed me towards consulting and that's what I'm going to be doing full time.

J.R.: 5:48

So, yeah, how did so as a high schooler? Like, what made you gravitate towards business? Right, you said there's those three sort of main directions. Yeah, but what about business drew you to it?

Eric: 6:02

Yeah, so in high school I didn't really know what consulting was. I didn't know what investment banking was. So coming into undergrad I think that's what added to that pressure of making a decision is I had to learn what those fields entailed for my full-time life and I had to think about, you know, what mattered to me. But going back to your question about high school, I did a lot of entrepreneurship. So we had entrepreneurship programs. I developed a curriculum for social entrepreneurship, which is maybe not necessarily focused on profit but social good, and I taught that curriculum to my peers.

Eric: 6:40

I think because of that, having ownership over something and being able to take something from a seed and see it grow into a huge venture was something that was exciting for me. And at the same time, I didn't want to necessarily, you know, be in a lab doing, you know, with a pipette, like doing experiments, like I wanted to be talking to people and understanding their perspectives and trying to negotiate. That's sort of what I thought my bread and butter was. So that's what pushed me towards business and why I committed so so hard to to business when I was an undergrad, I see.

J.R.: 7:19

So kind of like you had a level of self-awareness that, okay, maybe not engineer, maybe not lawyer, maybe not scientist in some sort of field. But you're like okay, this people aspect to this, creating something, making it come to fruition that's what made you lean towards business and then, from there, you explored more in undergraduate.

Eric: 7:36

Exactly, and I want to caveat by saying that if you're an engineer or you're a doctor, you're still going to have to interact with people. Engineer or you're a doctor, you're still gonna have to interact with people. But I think that's what drew me towards the, the field of business specifically, was I felt like it was more sort of people facing but, yeah, I.

J.R.: 7:54

Any field is going to involve you interacting with people yeah okay, so now moving back to you, moving from so how long were you in chicago for? Or so? You were born in pennsylvania, but yes, how long was chicago?

Eric: 8:05

yeah so I think I left out a step there. So I was born in Pennsylvania, lived in New York for a bit, I think. I moved to Chicago I don't know the exact year, but I was probably like nine or ten years old and then that's where I currently reside in and sort of college in LA feels like a four-year long vacation. But I think when I go back for my full-time role in Chicago it'll be definitely interesting seeing how my mannerisms has changed as I've spent more time in LA. I'm sure a lot of my friends from Chicago are gonna feel like I changed, but I think I'm the same. Yeah, I I don't know notice any big changes.

J.R.: 8:44

Yeah so that's perfect segue, because I was going to ask so you've been in Chicago since you're like nine or 10, and then until undergraduate, and then you've been at LA, obviously. So what are some of the big differences between Chicago and LA, or specifically UCLA, I guess?

Eric: 8:58

Yeah, maybe I can use this as an opportunity to elaborate on why I wanted to go back to Chicago after post-grad. I think there's, you know, one more pragmatic reason and then two reasons that are a bit more personal to me. So the first reason is that pragmatic reason is the cost of living is just a lot lower. So compared to LA, it's a 30% reduction.

Eric: 9:23

And compared to SF, it's 50% lower. Compared to New York if you're in Manhattan it's 100% lower. So I felt like Chicago as a city to live in post-grad. You get that huge metropolitan feel but at the same time you're not paying that huge tax to feel that and the city is super clean.

Eric: 9:41

I think there's a lot of misconceptions about the city and I actually did a project on it this past quarter about the misconceptions of Chicago. So that's the first reason. The second reason is you know, my family's there and as an only child I feel compelled to give back to my parents. They've given me so much so I want to be there for them and I feel like my mom sort of views me as a spoonful of medicine whenever I'm back home. So I don't want her to feel anxious me being across the country. So that's the second reason and sort of the last reason is there's definitely a difference in terms of the types of people in LA and Chicago.

Eric: 10:22

I think this is a massive generalization and there's obviously exceptions to the rule, but the way I'd characterize the West Coast versus the Midwest, versus the East Coast is there's a distinction between being nice and kind. I think the West Coast in general feels like people are nice but they're not necessarily kind and the distinction comes from being nice is maybe holding the door open for someone or saying thank you, but being kind is going out of your way to genuinely help someone. So I feel like that's sort of the generalization I feel from the West Coast. As opposed to the East Coast, it feels more so that people aren't nice, right, hey?

J.R.: 11:02

I'm walking over here whatever that stereotype is. Like that politeness Exactly.

Eric: 11:06

But they're kind right If you go to the local deli shop, the owner is going to know your name, going to know your order, and they care about you. I think the Midwest strikes a balance between the two. I think people are nice. If you're in the grocery store you hold eye contact for you know a little bit too long instead of people sort of looking away. They'll say, hey, how's it going, how's your morning? You're on a hike. They'll greet you right. And at the same time I think people are also kind. They're really willing to go out of their way to help people.

Eric: 11:32

And sometimes I feel like a fish out of water in la, because I try my hardest to be a kind person and a nice person to everyone and sometimes that isn't always reciprocated, which I don't fault people for doing that. It's just like a cultural difference, yeah, but that's like another distinction. That sort of draws me back to Chicago. So those three reasons are probably why I feel so strongly about Chicago. But it's bittersweet because I feel like the social circle I've developed these past four years.

Eric: 12:01

They're all based in LA. So after I I leave, I wonder sometimes what is my social circle going to look like? Am I going to have to start fresh? I know I'm going to have to start fresh, but how am I going to stay in touch with the people that have invested my time in these past four years? So that's something I'm also thinking about.

J.R.: 12:20

I like it. My next question is so what were some of the challenges? If any that you face kind of now shifting over to being in a UCLA LA sort of area person.

Eric: 12:32

Yeah, hardest aspect. I feel like this is a tough question because I don't think I've thought about it. I think when you're in a new environment you sort of adapt slowly over time. I think it definitely goes back to my previous answer about people maybe not necessarily being as kind, but then again I'm surrounded by a lot of kind people that care about me, so I think that's not really fair to say.

Eric: 13:00

Maybe more of a fun thing is, you know, the weather was definitely a big change for me. Chicago in the winter has super, super harsh winters, so you're all like bundled up in a jacket and a scarf, and in LA it's always sunny. So I think the hard part about adjusting is when I'm back home for a break, I have this expectation that you know it's going to be 75 degrees outside and it's going to be sunny. And then I'm hit with this realization that it's cloudy and it's snowing and it's not the best weather, exactly.

Eric: 13:34

So I think that's actually a big reason why Californians don't feel compelled to go to the Midwest or the East Coast. I think a big part of that is the weather, but I think for me it's easier to tolerate that is the weather. But I think for me it's easier to tolerate that because the weather, the chicago weather, is my status quo, so I don't feel as big of a difference. You know, when it's 60 degrees in la and my friends or my peers from california or, oh my god, it's really chilly. I'm, you know, I'm from chicago, so I can handle it. But I will say 60 degrees in LA feels a lot chillier than 60 degrees in Chicago, which I feel like is a weird thing.

J.R.: 14:09

Yeah, it's a weird. Like how does that make sense? Yeah?

Eric: 14:12

Maybe something to do with the moisture, I'm not sure.

J.R.: 14:14

It could be, or just the now you are more used to that sort of different environment.

J.R.: 14:19

Like this fish pond. You're used to it now. So now a little change affects you. Oh, that's a. That's a good analogy, right? Yeah, okay, so just rounding out this section. I guess, looking back at now your four-year ucla career journey, student journey, what would you say would be the biggest like lessons that you've learned through this? I know you've done a lot of different things clubs, organizations and stuff like that but if you were to like go back and look at it holistically, like, here's some of the biggest things that I learned that I grew from these four years?

Eric: 14:49

this is another loaded question. You're asking really great questions, so I'm glad, yeah, it is. It is your job. I think the biggest thing I learned. Firstly, I would say definitely think about what your goals are after you graduate. I think that's important. So you have that North Star, but at the same time, don't lose sight of the fact that you only go through undergrad once and you should be making memories.

Eric: 15:14

I think my biggest regret during undergrad was not spending time with more people that I care about. I think analogy that I think of is every friendship you have is like a leaky bucket. I think this is a pretty common analogy, so it's not that I came up with it or anything, I'm just sort of regurgitating it. But every friendship you have is a leaky bucket. So you pour some water in it and it'll drip through the bottom. And if you have too many buckets, you have one full bucket yourself that you can give to your friendships. If you have so many buckets that you're just giving one drop in each one, by the time you get back to that first bucket it's going to be completely empty.

Eric: 15:56

I think I felt pretty. I felt victim to that right of having a really large social circle. So I guess from the perspective of my peers they felt like I was super well-connected, but the depth of my relationships weren't necessarily where I wanted them to be. So I think spending more time with people that I felt like I could grow with, that I could feel comfortable just being myself around, I think that's one thing that's super important in undergrad, like building those really deep connections. I think that's what I personally longed for and I didn't necessarily get, but I do have friends.

Eric: 16:36

I think I keep caveating what I say because I don't like giving huge broad generalizations, but I think that's one thing that I want hopefully some undergrads to take away from this is that you only go through undergrad once. A lot of people that I talked to that have already graduated feel the sense of regret of, and wanting to do more in undergrad. So definitely have your career figured out. That's why you're paying such a large tuition to go to an institution but at the same time, like have fun. I think that's important I like that.

J.R.: 17:10

Yeah, and again, disclaimer eric is actually very popular so he's saying all of this from that lens, but no, it's.

J.R.: 17:16

I think, on top of that, it's like you're ambitious, you obviously have a lot of stuff you want to do, which is kind of like the pick, your poison slash. Like you know, opportunity cost is yeah, you do a lot of things, but maybe the spending time with people might be like a sacrifice, but you know it's a give and take. And then, like you said, focusing on your career as well is important. So I get that. That's good insights. Okay, so let's now pivot towards career. So this topic is business consulting, strategy consulting or management consulting I know there's different phrases and maybe there's one that's more right and then your future career or company Boston Consulting Group. So I guess, for the audience, could you define what strategy consulting is?

Eric: 17:56

Yeah. So I think this is. It's a funny question because a lot of people sort of ask a question what is consulting? And they never really get a straight answer. So I'm going to hopefully give a definition that makes sense. But I think the cliche analogy is that consultants are sort of the doctors of business. So a business might have a problem or an issue with a specific service line or a specific product or service, and they don't necessarily know what to do. So they'll go to a consultant and ask them hey, what are the exact problems that we're having and how do we solve it? So it's as if you go to a doctor and you're sick and you don't know what to do. The doctor identifies the symptoms, tells you what's happening and then prescribes you a medication. So that's sort of what a consultant does, except for business. And usually they're different projects, different clients, so they extend through all different industries.

Eric: 19:01

So I don't want to use any business jargon, but healthcare, industrials, tech we have clients all over the place and I think what's so great about consulting in terms of career path is because you're getting exposure to so many different industries and you're really solving those clients' most pressing problems. It makes you a lot more inclined to be flexible and versatile in how you solve problems moving forward, whether you decide to go into private equity or you decide to go into venture capital or into the corporate world and working in industry. So hopefully that gives a good definition If there's any clarifications.

Eric: 19:41

I'd love to give them, I know it's a little bit of a black box what consultants do.

J.R.: 19:46

No, actually, I think that's a great metaphor and I feel like it'll encapsulate what the audience would be wondering is like what do consultants do? So I like that. I guess my next question would be so we get what consultants do and we kind of get why you got into it because your mindset and how you found your way along to that path. But I guess, what do you think? Just to pick your brain, what kind of skills, characteristics, mindsets etc. Do you think are good to being a good?

Eric: 20:13

consultant, yeah, so I think there's two main skills that I can think of. So the first thing is very structured thinking, and that's something that's mirrored in the types of interviews that are given to consultants. It's called a case interview, so they give you a business problem and you have to solve that business problem within 30 minutes and usually it's very ambiguous. The problem that they give you and the onus is on you to ask the right questions to figure out what information you need to solve that business case. And part of what makes a great consultant is they can take that ambiguous problem and they can split it up into parts that are easy to digest so that they can come to an actionable recommendation for their client. So I think that's one really important skill for any consultant to have.

Eric: 21:05

And I think the second part of it sort of aligns with that structured thinking is communication. So taking that structured thinking and that analysis and being able to synthesize it in a way for people to really easily understand, because if you take a really complicated problem and you have a great solution but you don't know how to convey that to your client and you don't know how to convince them that that's the right solution, they're not going to implement it, and there's no reason for them to hire you in the first place if you're not able to communicate your solutions clearly. So I think it's those two aspects of firstly, creating that solution that makes sense and then, secondly, convincing your client that that is the right solution.

Eric: 21:45

I think those are two super important skills for any consultant to have.

J.R.: 21:49

I like that a lot so it's like there's two parts to that.

J.R.: 21:50

You can't just be good at one or the other. It's the product, but also the convincing and the people aspect of it. All right, so I think, oh. Next question is like challenges being in the field. I know you, you're familiar with business and consulting, obviously from your undergraduate experience and you're going to go into it as a full time employed adult. But from your current perspective, what do you think are some of the challenges being in the field and or tips on breaking into the industry? And I'm asking this as a person who, let's say, I'm a high schooler or undergraduate- and I'm like, oh, consulting.

J.R.: 22:20

That sounds cool. I heard about it from the Eric guy.

Eric: 22:27

What are the considerations, challenges and or how would you break into that? Yeah, so I think the first big tip I have for anyone that's interested in strategy consulting is never, ever, self-disqualify yourself. I see a lot of really high potential individuals who come into undergrad and they see these really exclusive feeling consulting organizations. I know it's a bit hypocritical, because I'm part of one and a leading one.

Eric: 22:54

So it seems like hypocritical, but I really am a strong proponent of. If you really work hard and put in the work and you network with the right people, you talk to the right people that are willing to help because actually more people are willing to help than you think they are you can really really be successful. And a lot of undergrads they see these organizations and they think, hey, I couldn't get into one. That means consulting is not right for me. I really feel like you should believe in yourself and know that it's possible to break into this field without having a consulting club on your resume, if anything like.

Eric: 23:30

I know an individual who got into Bain Company, which is another really reputable firm that worked on a farm for the summer and did it just because she wanted the experience of just doing something unique, and that's something that consulting firms are also looking for right. So definitely don't self-disqualify yourself. I think it's really when you're recruiting for any field that's quote-unquote competitive, the mindset that you have going into it is super important. So being able to push past that and push yourself to the limits and realize that you're good enough, I think is important.

J.R.: 24:07

Yeah, nice, I like it, okay.

J.R.: 24:09

One of the last parts of this subject is so I know the only thing I know about consulting strategy, consulting is our conversations, yeah. And then, like I mentioned before, is I watched the John Oliver's his whole breakdown on last week tonight on McKinsey, yes, and so it's pretty scathing, for I'll link to it as well and I sent it to eric. I'm like, oh, how would you think about this? Because this is obviously just my own perspective, like watching some media, and so it's tldr. It's like pretty scathing on the entire industry, but obviously focus on mckinsey and so obviously he raises interesting points and so I guess not to put you on the spot for an industry you're not really in yet you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, and you're not representing them and obviously, like that john oliver is basically saying, yeah, business consultants are like a bunch of crap, essentially right, there's obviously nuance to it and there's a lot of different things and I'm not saying I agree with that, I'm just like it's uh interesting perspective, so I guess just throw it over to you.

J.R.: 25:00

Do you have any thoughts on that sort of conception that some people might have on consulting?

Eric: 25:07

Yeah, I think I want to start off by saying it's important if you're in business, to be ethical. I think the reason why John Oliver really harped on McKinsey in particular is they had these ethical lapses that were a result of a lack of oversight, right? So I think in any sort of field there are going to be instances where you have those ethical lapses and it's great that there's people in media that are holding these companies and these firms accountable. At the same time, on the other side of the coin, I think consultants are also doing like a lot of really positive work that maybe is not so glamorous, not so headline catching, so it doesn't get as much attention, Right.

Eric: 25:47

So, for example, my firm, BCG. We do a lot of social impact work and I think that's what really drew me to the firm in the first place. One person I was on a call with who went to BCG after their MBA was a Teach for America teacher and she really cared a lot about nonprofits and she felt like she could do a lot in that field through BCG. And some of these nonprofits, right, they're not necessarily able to afford like a consulting project. So we'll do pro bono projects for those types of clients, and that's not necessarily something that you'll see in a John Oliver skit.

Eric: 26:26

So there's definitely a lot of other work that's happening that's not sort of these highlighted quote unquote like monstrous things, but at the same time, I want to emphasize that it's important, whenever you're conducting business, to be making sure that you're cognizant of how your work affects other people.

Eric: 26:44

So, that's something that I want to take into sort of my experience in consulting is having that in the back of my mind. I don't want to be a brainwashed consultant that thinks the field is completely perfect. Every field is going to have these like ethical lapses, but it's important to learn from these experiences so it doesn't happen in the future yeah, I like that a lot and just underscore it again.

J.R.: 27:07

I think every field has like those ethical lapses, like you said, and I think you as an individual should be cognizant of what sort of companies you're joining organizations and what you're doing to it, because obviously we can't blame like the entire structure of something necessarily, because it's the individuals who make that up and the leadership and everything and what you're being driven by. So of course, it's the same thing with unethical doctors, lawyers, engineers, everything Right. So yeah, thank you for sharing that because I totally agree. I think what you bring into your field and your career choice can be good or evil. Like sometimes the weapon is like agnostic to who is doing it, you know.

J.R.: 27:43

So yeah, Thank you like sometimes the weapon is like agnostic to who's doing it, you know. So yeah, thank you. Yeah, of course, all right. So, or sorry, any other thing on topic of consulting or bcg or anything on that throw out there yeah, I mean, if you're interested, definitely research the field.

Eric: 27:56

And I will say, preparing for case interviews is very intense. You're gonna have to practice a lot. I think most people need to do maybe 20 or 30 cases to feel comfortable with the whole interview process. But don't let it scare you. I think a lot of people sort of are at the bottom of the mountain and they look up and they're sort of doubting whether they can make it to that peak. But you just need to take that first step and slowly climb and over time you'll realize how doable it actually is. So it always goes back to mindset. I think that's one thing that I tell my peers that are recruiting is you need to have the right mindset going into recruiting, because it's a marathon, not a sprint. For me, my internship recruiting process probably took six to seven months, I think. For full-time recruiting maybe a little bit less than that, like three months, but still it's a lot of time and you're going to have to dedicate a lot of mental energy to it. But just keep going at it. Yeah, nice.

J.R.: 28:57

Cool, good advice, all right. So next topic so it's kind of like a mash of different things so building rapport, finding professional success and balance. So it's kind of like a mash of different things, so building rapport, finding professional success and balance. So my first question is how does one achieve quote unquote professional success, and how would you define that?

Eric: 29:13

I'm going to give the typical consultant answer of it depends, right? I think everyone optimizes for different things in their professional career. Some might I mean, if I'm being honest, some might just optimize for money, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some might optimize for fulfillment, and I think that's one thing that I care a lot about is, you know, consulting for a lot of people aren't, isn't the end all be all. They sort of use it as a launching pad to do something else.

Eric: 29:43

For me, I don't know if consulting is sort of the end-all be-all. They sort of use it as a launching pad to do something else. For me. I don't know if consulting is sort of the end-all be-all for me, because I haven't really entered the field yet, 100% yet. But I want to do something social impact related at least sometime in my life, and I think consulting sets me up really well for that. So I think professional success you're gonna have to define it yourself. For me it's fulfillment. But you really have to think about what do you want to get out of your career and do that introspection, because, frankly, other people can't really do that for you, right?

J.R.: 30:17

So cool, yeah, Answer my question All right. So the next thing on that is okay. So rapport so how does one build rapport and why is it important and how do you approach it? You mentioned this is one of the topics.

Eric: 30:29

Yeah, building rapport. I think it's so important to build rapport with your friends, your peers, your co workers because that establishes trust and I think that goes a very long way in terms of your success. You know, success isn't just thinking about yourself, it's also thinking about how can you contribute to other people and, I think, building rapport firstly. I think one tenet that JR has really taught me is integrity and doing what you say you will. I think that goes a very long way, especially in the workplace.

Eric: 31:06

If your manager tells you, hey, I want this slide deck done by tomorrow and you say, yes, I have capacity, I'll get it done, and you don't get it done, then the next time they're going to doubt your ability and they're going to have to babysit you and that's not necessarily a good look for you. But if you say that you're going to get it done, try your best to get it done, and if you can't communicate, that, you can't right. So I think those professionalism skills are really closely tied to building that trust and building rapport in the office. I think another way to build rapport in the office is just being a nice, kind person. I think Nice and kind, nice and kind, like a true Chicagoan.

J.R.: 31:47

Yeah, like.

Eric: 31:48

Chicagoan people, we're nice and kind. Yeah, exactly, I think it definitely goes a long way Saying hi to people in the office, making them feel welcome, making you know people feel like they're cared for. I especially feel like in the office people tend to keep a distance from other people and that's totally okay. But I like to be a warm personality that says hi, that grabs people's coffees and whatnot, because I think it's important if you're spending, especially in consulting, like 60 to 80 hours a week with people, you want to enjoy your time with them, and I always view a new person as an opportunity to gain new perspective and gain a new friend. So that's something that I care a lot about and has helped me in my professional career building that rapport, because I naturally want to be a kind person. I think it's a good thing to do in the office. Yes, I like it All right. So kind of changing gears a kind person.

Eric: 32:43

I think it's a good thing to do in the office. Yeah, I like it.

J.R.: 32:45

All right, so kind of changing gears a little bit. So, with your last four years being super busy, how do you manage to find balance with friends and hobbies and I guess on top of that, if you have any interesting stories, challenges or advice you want to share on this idea of balance? Being a guy who does a lot of different clubs, organizations, you also dance to different teams and other stuff so how do you approach that?

Eric: 33:09

Yeah, well, first I will say there have been definitely moments in undergrad where I had no balance and I think to my peers, some people look at all the organizations I do and they assume I got everything figured out. But there have been times where I'm like I simply I'm overwhelmed, I'm burnt out, and I think it's important to recognize when you're at that point and think about what do you want to prioritize at this moment and taking a step back when you need to. I think maybe one example I'll give is when I was the president of my consulting club. There were a lot of times where I should have delegated tasks to others and maybe they were busy so they said they couldn't pick things up. My natural reaction is hey, don't worry about it, I'll pick it up, don't stress.

Eric: 34:01

But at a certain point that's unsustainable and I think it's doing a disservice to the people that I work with, because then they don't gain that autonomy and that initiative to do those things themselves, they don't build those skills. So not only am I overwhelming myself, but I'm depriving them of the opportunity to do their job right. So I think that's one thing that I definitely learned when leading an organization is knowing when to delegate tasks and knowing that you're not burdening them. If anything, you're just helping them gain proficiency in what they should be doing. So I know that was a bit of a long-winded answer, but I think one. I know that was a bit of a long-winded answer, but I think one delegating and then two knowing when to take a step back.

J.R.: 34:48

Okay, I guess to dig a little deeper. That answered the question, but to dig a little deeper now. So how do you do all these different things? So I know you said delegating and taking a step back, but I think there also will be people out there who are just as ambitious as you. Like want to join a comp team, k-pop team, different, two different clubs also be recruiting and like trying to figure out your career, anything else beyond just those two. Delegating, taking a step back do you think helps with helping you find balance?

Eric: 35:15

Yeah Well, I treat my calendar as the Bible, so I feel like every single thing that I have to do I put on my calendar, and that's super important, especially if you're an undergrad. Make sure that you have a calendar, that you're sending calendar invites to people, that you're keeping track of your different tasks, because I think the biggest difficulty with balancing different things is like they'll inevitably fall through the cracks. I know for choreos, we have a lot of forms that we have to fill out, and I am not the best at filling out those forms unfortunately, All the chorus people listening.

J.R.: 35:54

yep, that's true.

Eric: 35:55

Yeah, so I mean, I'm not perfect, so I definitely have those lapses too. But having the calendar and keeping track of the different events you have and actively thinking throughout the day okay, what's next on my calendar? What do I have to do tomorrow? What do I have to do at the end of today to set me up for success the rest of the week, I think helps you get in a rhythm that makes it not as overwhelming to be doing so many activities. But yeah, it is a struggle. I'm not saying it's easy and that I'm an expert in this. It's just you have to do trial and error and figure out what works, and people have different capacities for doing different things and they need to blow off steam in different ways. So it's not like a one-size-fits-all solution, but being structured and having a calendar is a great way to ensure that you don't over overwhelm yourself.

J.R.: 36:50

I like it, so now I'm curious about. So leadership is one of the things I love talking about and, as someone who's been a leader of organizations, started your own things and now going into a people focused career field aside from the delegation and aside from trying to grow the leaders and having a calendar, do you think there are I'd like to get your thoughts on. What do you think are some other leadership insights or life lessons or things that you've learned along the way of being an effective leader?

Eric: 37:17

Yeah, I think one philosophy that I really resonate with and something that I actually learned from the high school leadership program that I helped lead it was literally called LEAD, whic h is funny.

J.R.: 37:30

Yeah, it's LEAD.

Eric: 37:37

Yeah, it's servant leadership, and they have constituents that they need to keep track of and have responsibility for. They tend to put themselves up on a pedestal or feel like they have this sense of power that you know when you delegate, it's like you do your task. If you don't do your task, I will reprimand you. And servant leadership is different in that you view your constituents as equals and you do everything in your power to remove obstacles that prevent them from being successful, and I think that's a mindset that I try to take into all my organizations. So, for example, even before I stepped up as president for my consulting club, we had a retreat, and it was a two-day retreat. A lot of the upperclassmen left after the first day just because they had midterms. It was sort of bad timing it was just smack dab in the middle of midterm season, so a lot of the upperclassmen left after that first day. And then we had these new interns that just joined the organization with basically little to no upperclassmen left for that second day, and a lot of them were bummed out right. This is an opportunity for you to really get to know the club, and if all the upperclassmen are missing, they were okay, but we may as well just go home. So I really thought to myself, how do I make this memorable for those new interns? And I lied to them. I locked myself in a room upstairs. I was like, oh my God, I have this essay I have to do. I'm going to lock myself in my room and not talk to you guys. I'm so sorry. And I told them like, hey, like you guys should go to the grocery store, get some food and we can cook dinner together and have a good time. But in that room I was scheming a murder mystery for them to do. That they had no idea about. So once they came back and they cooked dinner and I finally came out of my room, I'm like, oh my God, I finally finished my essay. Wow, this pasta is so good. Good job, guys.

Eric: 39:38

I got my dad to give me a fake call. So I picked up the call. I showed everyone the caller ID so like, oh, like his dad's calling him. I was like, hey, guys, I'm going to take a walk outside and I'm just going to talk to my dad. So for context, earlier in the day we saw a really shady white van driving around our B, because we're in the middle of the woods. This is in Lake Arrow arrowhead, if you were familiar with it and because of that I called at the time the president, who was still inside the house, who was in on it.

Eric: 40:12

I was like, hey, austin, I'm in the middle of the woods and there's like this shady van that's behind me and I tried to put on my acting, because I used to act in middle school, I used to be a theater kid that I was like genuinely scared. And then I was like, oh my god, he's coming closer. And then I hung up really fast and he showed me a video of all the interns, genuinely very concerned for me. So they're like putting on their shoes. Oh, my god, we gotta go find him. Yeah, but little did they know.

Eric: 40:39

I was just hiding outside the house and there was a speaker inside the house that I could connect to remotely and I had these robotic voice prompts that I would play over the speaker and basically this imaginary guy kidnapped me and they needed to solve a series of riddles to find me. So they had to run around the house and I'm very proud of the murder mystery because I put a lot of thought into it, like, for example, there's one point where they had to find a chessboard downstairs for the next clue. So they already were upstairs and knew that nobody was up there. But once they went downstairs to check that clue, I actually snuck in the house and went upstairs to hide on the balcony. So it's almost at the end. When they finally found where I was, it's almost as if I appeared from nowhere.

Eric: 41:32

So I put a lot of thought into that and I think it was a really core memory for a lot of our interns and is why they're so dedicated to the new interns that we take this year, because they felt like I put in that effort to care for them. So they're going to do the same for their underclassmen and it's just a good way to perpetuate that culture of giving back super long story. But I feel like it's a good example of being a servant leader and going out of your way to help people and make people feel cared for so that they can be the best version of themselves. And that's just the key to any high performing organization is you want people to not have those obstacles holding them back from being successful. Nice, I like it.

J.R.: 42:17

Cool, yeah, that was great. I don't want to add anything to that. I was like that was a great story too. Okay, that is it for the main topics. Do you want to be ready for rapid fire? This is the fun part.

Eric: 42:27

Ready for rapid fire?

J.R.: 42:28

Yes, yeah, I think so Cool, yeah, all right, you've seen the questions, it'll be fine, all right. First question billboard question.

Eric: 42:44

If you could put up a sign for millions of people to see what would it say? Okay, I'll give it a joke answer and then a real answer. So we're talking about this in the car. Um, I think my funny billboard would say why are you looking at this? Billboard. You should be paying attention to the road. Actually, now that I say it out loud it's actually not that funny. But my real answer I actually don't know. I didn't really think about a real I just stopped at the.

J.R.: 42:59

Oh my god, what are you doing? Not looking at the road? Watch out, there's a car.

Eric: 43:02

Yeah, I think I'd really want to have one of those. Okay, this is another non-serious answer, but it was like those got injured, like lawyer ads with my face on it, yeah, and like they're really easy to remember numbers like five, five, five, five, five, five, five. Yeah, yeah, something like that.

J.R.: 43:20

Yeah, just for that's, just like a fun question, yeah, it's funny because, as of this monday, I have a personal injury attorney who is their episode is going live this monday oh, that's yeah so he has billboards.

Eric: 43:31

That literally has a space that has numbers, it's easy.

J.R.: 43:34

He's ollie rozavi who hurt you, you guys. By the time you hear this episode, you would have probably have already heard of his episode oh, I see, yeah.

Eric: 43:41

So yeah, that's, we have one of those guys, yeah, oh cool.

J.R.: 43:44

So because I asked him the billboard question, I'm like well, not that you don't already have billboards, but what would you put so funny? Okay, next question what is one of the hardest challenges you faced in your life and what did you learn from?

Eric: 43:55

it hardest challenges I faced in your life and what did you learn from it? Hardest challenges I faced in my life? I think one was I was really heavily involved in student government in high school and I lost an election and at the time it seemed like the end of the world because I equated my identity to student council, which is, I feel like, not a healthy thing to do. But after that I rediscovered my intrinsic motivation for why I wanted to do student council in the first place and I think that helped me a lot in terms of understanding why I was doing what I was doing and having the right reasons to do it, and I ended up doing well in the next election because of it.

J.R.: 44:34

Nice Self-inflicted wound. Do you have a story about something that's gone wrong in your life that you can't blame anyone else because you did it to yourself?

Eric: 44:43

Yeah, wow, very introspective question. I think it goes back to the doing too many things. I think I'd like to say doing all these amazing things, while you know I must be some like superhero, but I'm really not Like. I think there's so many times where I've been super burnt out and it's not healthy at all. So I think that's a common theme of finding the right balance and why I wanted to talk about it so much is it's important to to realize when you're doing too much.

Eric: 45:21

I think there's something called duck syndrome. I don't know if you've heard of it, but let's say, ucla is a pond. Oh, I see. Yeah, ucla is a pond and you're a duck and you see a bunch of these other ducks in the pond and on the surface it looks like they're gliding through the water and everything's a-okay, but every single duck under the water, their feet are like, they're like going like this, exactly right, and I think that's a really common thing to see is you'll look around and see your peers. They're so successful. It doesn't look like they're struggling at all so easy.

Eric: 45:56

But exactly Behind closed doors they might be fighting for their life. I feel like I definitely resemble that. Maybe from the outside perspective it looks like I have everything figured out, but there's been definitely times where I haven't. And that's totally okay, and it's important to be vulnerable so that people know that it's okay to feel overwhelmed, it's totally normal, yeah.

J.R.: 46:21

If you could redo one thing, what would you do differently? Not that you don't appreciate everything that's happened, but as a thought experiment redo something.

Eric: 46:27

I think the worst feeling ever is regret. So I'm trying to comb through sort of all the regrets that I've had, but I think this is a little meta, but I think I regret having too many regrets, I think, especially since I'm graduating soon, I'm looking back and reflecting on my college experience and I might feel like, hey, I should have done this, I should have done that, but that in and of itself takes away from my college experience. So, yeah, it's a never say never situation, just being happy with what I did and the choices that I made, and moving forward and not looking back, I think is important.

J.R.: 47:10

Yeah I like that answer. It's basically what I regret most is regretting too much yeah, so maybe I should stop doing here. Yeah, yeah some mr miyagi stuff right there. Okay, um similar question, but if you could give your younger self advice, what would it be now, any age or time period?

Eric: 47:27

younger self. Hmm, believe it or not, when I was in elementary school I was extremely introverted, so I was sort of like the kid that would sit at lunch by themselves, and at the time I like felt no pity for myself. I was a kid, I didn't really understand it. But I think, looking back at it now as someone that cares a lot about interacting with people, I think I sort of feel sad for my younger self. But I think over time I realized that having those perspectives from other people and talking about sort of what makes them tick, what motivates them, has helped motivate me as well. And it's okay, you know, but you should step out of your shell, push yourself out of your comfort zone and talk to more people, because I think that's what makes me tick is other people and spending time with them.

J.R.: 48:28

So yeah, in the last few years what new belief, behavior or habit has improved?

Eric: 48:34

your life Organization structure. I think that really goes a long way and goes back to the calendar thing that I said earlier is having that structure makes sure that everything runs smoothly.

J.R.: 48:48

So yeah, I think structure yeah, especially if you have a lot going on. Exactly, it necessitates being more organized, right? Who would you call successful and how do you define success?

Eric: 49:05

Who would I call successful? Someone that's happy Because you could have all the money in the world, but if you don't like the trajectory of your life, you don't like the people that you surround yourself with.

J.R.: 49:12

I would not say that you're successful so.

Eric: 49:15

I think successful I was going to say successfulness, but that's not right. I think success is like how happy you are, how fulfilled you are, but I will say there's a distinction between being happy and fulfilled, so maybe more so towards fulfillment. I think, those are the people that are most successful. You could be living in a quaint town by yourself in the middle of nowhere, no reception, but if you're fulfilled with your life, I think you're a very successful person. I like it.

J.R.: 49:45

Yeah, if you knew you couldn't fail, what would you be doing? Or what would you try If I knew?

Eric: 49:50

I couldn't fail? That's an interesting question, because I think I tend to be pretty risk averse. So if I couldn't fail, I'd be a K-pop idol. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm halfway there because of choreos, you know right, no comment.

J.R.: 50:12

What would your role be in a K-pop idol group? Well, I mean.

Eric: 50:19

I think you know the answer I'm gonna say, but I'm not gonna say that I think I'd be main dancer. I think the answer jr would want me to say is visual, but that's the answer that all of choreos is thinking in their head.

J.R.: 50:32

He's gonna say visual, isn't he?

Eric: 50:34

but yeah, I think but yeah, I think dancer because K-pop is the reason why I started dancing and it's such a near and dear thing to my heart. Like dancing because I grew up doing a lot of different things, like I played clarinet for a bit, viola, I was in choir, I did figure skating for like a month. I did competitive swimming, I did water polo oh, wow, so nice. I felt like all the different activities I did wasn't necessarily something that I was passionate about, but with dance specifically, if I don't dance for a while, I get this itch Like I have to do it and I feel like now that I have dance in my life and it's something I care a lot about and gets me into that flow state, yeah, I think I'd want to be a main dancer Nice, yeah.

J.R.: 51:34

I like it. What is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you've ever made in either time money, energy, etc.

Eric: 51:41

Okay, I'm going to start off with a very practical advice. If you are 18, please invest in your Roth IRA. Get a head start on your retirement fund Compound interest does wonders. We were talking about this in the car, too and make sure you put your money in index funds, because it hedges your risk. So, yes, that's the first thing. The second thing, I think invest time in your parents and people that you feel like you can be totally normal around, be totally yourself.

J.R.: 52:15

Exactly, except here's you are.

Eric: 52:16

Exactly. I think my litmus test for how comfortable I feel with someone is if we're sitting in a car and we're not saying anything and I don't feel any need to break the silence. Like I know I'm comfortable with you, right? So I think that's one thing that people should invest time with is your parents, because they provide a lot of time and effort into you and making sure that you're raised well, and your friends, that you feel like you can be totally normal around.

J.R.: 52:48

Yes, I like it, favorite recent purchase in the 50 to 100 range that has impacted your life the most in the last, let's say, six months so this I know the question said 50 to 100, but you know, let's push that up 50% to like 150.

Eric: 53:05

I bought a Kindle and growing up I was not a big reader, just because I remember having to do those reading logs where I had to write what book I had to like, what book I was reading, how long I read it for.

Eric: 53:22

And we had to do 30 minutes every day and some of those entries may have been fabricated. But now I realize the benefits of reading a book is that a lot of people spend time synthesizing and compiling insights and they put in a lot of effort to literally give you this one object that compiles like literally everything that they've learned and you can sort of create and meld your own version of your own ideologies, outlooks on life.

Eric: 53:58

I think it helps a lot. So the kindle is great because it's so light, you can really take it anywhere I can read it. At night you can't really read a book because there's no like backlight.

J.R.: 54:08

So I think the kindle is a good, good, good thing to invest in yeah, and I guess just the higher principles, like reading I mean preaching to the choir, like I have a whole book summaries website for the exact same reason as, like I, aside from assigned school reading, like I love reading just to learn and then also synthesize for myself and then share with other people, because that helps me like a three-step process of learning is like consuming, synthesizing and then sharing.

J.R.: 54:35

Yeah, helps me learn it more deeply. So, yeah, highly recommend it. Audience read more. Okay. Last question for the rapid fire Favorite books, movies, videos, articles or any media that you share or recommend the most.

Eric: 54:48

Favorite books. I'll start with books. We just talked about books, so I'm actually reading Atomic Habits right now.

Eric: 54:55

It's a good book, and I'm surprised I didn't read it earlier, because it's such a popular book, and I think it's. I think I sort of understood how habits reform, but it really gives a deep dive into, psychologically, how you build and reinforce habits, not just positive ones, but negative ones as well. So definitely a good read. I think another book that if you haven't heard of before, that's good is how to Win Friends and Influence People. I think another book that if you haven't heard of before, that's good is how to Win Friends and Influence People. I think one thing I will say, though, is when you read that, I think the perspective is interesting, because it sort of picks up on what successful people do well.

Eric: 55:32

But the analogy I'll give is if you had no idea, jr, how to ride a bike and I gave you a book on how to ride a bike, by the time you finish reading that book, I highly doubt you'd be able to ride a bike. Well, after that book. You sort of have to practice. You don't really think when you're riding a bike. Okay, my foot's got to go 45 degrees this way, and I got to keep pedaling and I got to turn the handlebars. You just do it instinctively, and, and I got to turn the handlebars. You just do it instinctively and I think taking that same mindset to how to win friends and influence people is you have to practice those skills.

Eric: 56:04

And at first it might seem a bit unintuitive and disingenuine, but you have to build it into how you naturally interact with people. So a lot of people sort of read the book and they have these tips and they try it out and they're like wait, this isn't who I am. And then they stop. But for those successful people, they've ingrained those behaviors into their daily life and that's how they end up becoming successful. So I think it's important reading that book through that lens is you're not thinking okay, when I talk to people, people I should say their name more. It's that naturally when you talk and just say their name once or twice and over time it'll just be natural, jr.

J.R.: 56:48

Yes, eric I like it yeah, yeah, that's also another really good, but so one of the first personal development books I read was how to win friends with these people. I just saw it on a shelf. It was red. I was like oh this looks interesting yeah but, then that started me on the whole journey. But, like to your point, it's like the live practice in the field, in the trenches, and it's like taking with a grain of salt. But there's solid principles in there.

Eric: 57:09

But once you apply it.

J.R.: 57:10

You'll figure out how to work in your own life, but there's solid ideas in there of how to approach this whole people skills thing. Cool, anything else.

Eric: 57:20

Any recs? Any other recs? I'm a big fan of Christopher Nolan movies so it's actually on my resume in my interest section. I highly recommend Tenet. I think it has such a bad rap because it's confusing, but I remember looking through analysis videos after and it absolutely blew my mind. It's a masterpiece, so I recommend it. The other good christopher nolan movie is like interstellar, but I feel like everyone says that, so I'm gonna stick with tenant.

J.R.: 57:51

I think I had one. Guess you recommended interstellar, but yeah, good movies cool all right, that is it for rapid fire. We'll go into ending questions. So, eric, gratitude, I liked it with gratitude, shout out to my mom, since I didn't mention it last time. Solomon was like hey, you didn't say your mom, I was like all right, well, okay, she'll get the next one. What do you get before, eric? What am I grateful for?

Eric: 58:11

jr. I'm grateful for you. Thanks, man. Yeah, I think genuinely he's giving me a lot of great advice that I've taken with me throughout college. So definitely grateful for you and want to thank you for having me on your podcast as your youngest guest. Hopefully that that title stays for a long time. I feel like it might, but we'll see what else am I grateful?

J.R.: 58:32

for.

Eric: 58:33

I'm grateful for my mom and my dad. Obviously, that's a big reason for why I want to go back to Chicago. I'm grateful for Solomon for being here and helping out with the podcast.

J.R.: 58:42

And.

Eric: 58:43

I'm grateful for, you know, my friends, I'm grateful for all the opportunities that I've had. I think, yes, you know I've worked really hard for all these accomplishments and things I've added to my pedigree, but a big part of it is luck right. So I'm grateful that I've been lucky to have thoseigree, but a big part of it is luck right. So I'm grateful that I've been lucky to have those opportunities. There's a lot that I'm grateful for, but I think I'll end it there because I know we got some other questions to go to.

J.R.: 59:09

So, yeah, we're wrapping it up Cool. Second last thing any final ask from the audience or any final takeaways you'd like them to have from this conversation?

Eric: 59:20

you'd like them to have from this conversation. Yeah, final takeaways. Man, I don't want to sound too preachy because I feel like that's a it's a common thing for the ending.

Eric: 59:25

But okay, number one, invest in your author please cg nova I think that's a big thing, especially for young people, like setting yourself up for financial success, I think is really important, something that I hope people do. But other than that, definitely strike a balance. I think there's more to life than just professional success. So spend time with people that you care about, make memories, find what makes you feel fulfilled in life and, yeah, just have a good time. Right, life isn't just about being successful and having a good job and driving a Lamborghini. It's about the people that you surround yourself with. I think my ideal life is, you know me, with my wife and my kids and maybe a german shepherd, you know, walking in the neighborhood, seeing the sunset, hearing the birds chirping. That's like my ideal lifestyle living in the moment. Exactly.

J.R.: 1:00:31

Care about, yeah, exactly so, in the great words of pitbull, every day above ground is a great day. Remember that.

Eric: 1:00:37

Yeah.

J.R.: 1:00:38

Bars, bars.

Eric: 1:00:40

Cool cool.

J.R.: 1:00:41

And on the whole IRA thing, if I am looking for a, if someone is an expert in personal finance, I would love to have you on the show.

Eric: 1:00:49

I do have a close friend of mine who wasn't able to make it who does personal finance stuff, but just a call to action.

J.R.: 1:00:54

If you know anything about finance, I'd love to have you on the show. If you know anything about finance, I'd love to have you on the show. All right, last question when can we find you, eric? If people are curious what you're up to or want to connect and reach out, where can they find you?

Eric: 1:01:03

Yeah, so eric underscore pan. That's my Instagram. I think that's more of like unserious stuff. I'll probably post stuff about my business orgs and choreos and my comp dance team essay all day, but business orgs and choreos and my comp dance team ACA all day. But in terms of professional stuff I think definitely reach out to me on LinkedIn. I think you can just search up Eric Pan, ucla.

J.R.: 1:01:27

I'll probably have his face, most likely, yes.

Eric: 1:01:30

My beautiful face, your visuals.

J.R.: 1:01:32

Okay, awesome.

Eric: 1:01:34

Yeah.

J.R.: 1:01:35

Cool. All right, so that's it for questions. I'll wrap it up, but just final. Thank you, Eric, for being here. I really appreciate it. And just to put a ball on that, you know seeing you from first year, Eric, until now, it has been a pleasure and a joy to see you kind of blossom into the person you are today.

Eric: 1:01:49

Thank you.

J.R.: 1:01:49

I will reiterate that you are the same person, in a good way, Like you haven't changed much. Obviously, you're much wiser, and Obviously you're much wiser and you've had a lot more experience. But I am genuinely excited for your future. I feel like you're going to do great things and looking forward to following it.

Eric: 1:02:02

Wow, I appreciate it and thank you so much for having me on the podcast and hoping that even after I go back to Chicago we stay in touch. Yes, 100%.

J.R.: 1:02:10

Cool, all right, my final sign off for the audience. Thank you guys for being here and listening and tuning in. Friendly reminder to always be kind to other people, especially yourself, kind and nice, and you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen.

Eric: 1:02:25

So thanks for being here, awesome, thank you.