J.R.: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000 Gurus with me, your host, jr Yonacruz. Today's guest is a return guest, julie Huynh. Julie is passionate about lifelong learning and bringing people together. She's originally from Chicago but grew up in Orange County. She spends all of her waking hours dividing time between full-time work as a user experience designer, freelance graphic designing, volunteering, working on various hobbies and being there for family and friends. So Julie is quite literally one of my favorite people in life, which is no surprise that she was my first random show guest and I was glad we were able to have her come back for her own special guru episode. I might say this about a lot of episodes, but I really enjoyed this one a lot, as it is with one of my close friends that I've had on the show. But more than that, I found myself taking a copious amount of notes while I was editing this one. Julie had so many good and insightful points that I wanted to note down and reference later on. Hopefully that translates into how much I admire Julie and is a testament to how insightful she is. So, without further ado, hope you enjoy this episode with Julie Huynh. Hello everyone and welcome back to 1000 Gurus. Please welcome my guest, julie Huynh. Yay, or welcome back my guest. Actually. Yeah, cool, all right.

J.R.: 1:21

So, julie, you were here for episode 20, our random show. So the first time the audience has heard of you, we were both drinking, so now we are both sober and now we get a full, actual guru episode. So I think it's exciting, cool. So let's go into how I know you. So we've danced together. We danced together on cop at ECI. They keep k-pop team eci as co-chords back in 2012, 2013, but we were on the team before then as well, so that was like our fourth year, right? Yeah, pretty sure, I'm pretty sure. And then we've been friends since then. We have dinner semi-regularly and long chats and people should check out episode 20, our random show episode. We were also housemates for a year or so, like that. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Any, I know we have a lot to get into and the audience already knows your bio and all your links, but anything else that you're up to that you want to share right now.

Julie: 2:13

No, we'll just see what happens next hour. See what happens, we'll just freestyle cool.

J.R.: 2:19

All right, we'll go into. Actually, can we play the first video? This is a casey in 2011,. I believe with Cop. This is my boy.

Julie: 2:29

We're both splitting center here Great job hey hey. I was like I wanted that part, but then there's also the body weight.

J.R.: 2:44

Well, really, certain face. Thanks so much 13 14 years ago I feel like I feel like we could pull this off. Hey, like I feel like we could pull this off. Hey, how do you feel about this? Watching your old self?

Julie: 3:11

oh, I am more of. I can't believe how much energy we had. Yeah, so fit, we took it for granted that's what I think about yeah is how much I took it for granted back then always thought about, about, oh, I wish I could be more XYZ. But then when you look back you're like I already was more, I just didn't know it.

J.R.: 3:31

Yeah, I think I feel the same. I feel like when I was watching that I'm like dang, I'm so like full out into it, because nowadays I'm just like all right, I'm here, I'm dancing, like I'm pretty unmotivated. I showed up.

Julie: 3:42

Yeah, I showed up.

J.R.: 3:43

I did it. I'm dancing, but yeah, so anyways, that was a lot of fun.

Julie: 3:47

I'll link to it so if you guys want to check out the full video.

J.R.: 3:51

It's like a 14 minute or something like that long performance, all right. First topic, as usual origin story, career journey, aspirations. So, julie, could you just give us like a like where you grew up? What were your main influences, like people, events, experiences that eventually led to where you are today? I know it's a little bit of a chunky question, but anything come to mind of what shaped you to who you are today.

Julie: 4:13

Yeah, okay. Well, let's talk what came to my head the moment you asked those questions. Well, my hometown's, chicago. That's where I was born and raised my people that I looked up to mostly celebrities at the time so michael jordan, michelle kwan and then, at some time, kim possible from the cartoon so those were my three. Michael jordan yeah, michelle kwan and kim possible. Yes, those were my role models a great intersection of people, but definitely michael jordan and michelle kwan.

Julie: 4:42

Oh yeah, so when I was younger, I regularly, always followed athletes and their biographies a lot. I mean, I think at the time, for some reason, they were frequently on the backs of cereal boxes too, I remember Colin Powell was also on the back of a cereal box or something.

Julie: 5:00

So stuff like that was very influential to me. And then events, let's see, I moved to the west coast when I was about, I think, 12 or 13 years old. So that was a huge shift in my life, because chicago was really different from orange county so I didn't want to. And then I mean I've been in orange county, I think for at least 20 years now since then. Yeah, wait, didn't you live in Texas? No, I just only went there several months of the year to visit my parents.

J.R.: 5:29

Oh, I see, I see, I see. Okay, gotcha. So just to take a step back. So why athletes Like? Why Michael Jordan? Why Michelle Kwan?

Julie: 5:38

I don't know. I think during that time, when I was maybe between the ages of six to ten-ish, the Bulls were killing it. And then, plus, michael Jordan was so famous and I mean my father really liked to watch Michael Jordan games and I just think something about how good he was at his craft. That and also Michelle Kwan at the time, too, she was. I don't know their statistics or anything in terms of how many Olympics they were in and things like that, but those two people I thought they were such legends in their sport that that was a level of excellence that I wanted to be like. Those were my aspirations.

J.R.: 6:18

That was like late 90s right. Mm-hmm, yeah, 1990s, yeah, I'm trying to place us in time.

Julie: 6:24

Yeah, Plus I really like to play sports as a kid too, so there was that what sports did you play? So yeah, really, the three were volleyball, soccer and basketball. Those are the three that I like the most. I mean, I of course wanted to be a figure skater. I will say what about figures? But but I that's not a secret agent secret agent. Yeah, I mean, actually that's one of the career choices I wish I could have gone into, but only if I didn't have any friends or family or something you know.

J.R.: 6:52

See, there's your weakness.

Julie: 6:53

You have friends and family.

J.R.: 6:54

Yeah, Otherwise you could have been a secret agent, yeah, yeah. All right. So then from there you eventually went to UCI, where we both went.

Julie: 7:06

And to UCI, where we both went, and then you correct me if I'm wrong double majored in public health and Asian American studies, correct? But you know, when I went to college it was really just biology for biological sciences, and then the reason Asian American studies came into the mix was I just felt at some point during college I was getting fatigued from just too much of the left-sided science, stem work, like I wanted something more creative.

J.R.: 7:32

Oh, I see Left-sided meaning like more science.

Julie: 7:35

Yes, and so I really wanted just something else in tandem. So I was like, why don't I just take on another major? It only was just happening to be Asian American studies, because I was already taking certain electives towards it. So I'm like, oh, I only need six more classes, why not? And it was great. I loved having that balance of that mix of both left and right science and art, I see.

J.R.: 7:58

So then, what informed you to first go for bio and then also I know you said, the creative side, but why asian, american studies, like what drew you towards those two?

Julie: 8:09

yes, okay, well, I was bio because my family was determined that I would become a dentist. Okay, because I mean in a dentistry, because they thought I would be my own boss afterwards. I would make so much money, a killing after just extracting a tooth and then I would have so much free time. That was the dream, right For them.

Julie: 8:30

For me, the creative part was just I grew up an only child so I spent a lot of my alone time just drawing and watching television, reading, writing all those things the Asian American Studies was growing up, my relatives were really involved in the Vietnamese community and just community work in general. So I would go to the Vietnamese schools. There was always those types of you know, when orgs get together there's just events that you I mean I didn't grow up going, spending a lot of time in temples with kids or youth groups like that. So I guess Vietnamese community was my youth group in a way and those events led me to learn a lot about my Vietnamese history. And then I think, because of always knowing that history when I was younger, when I finally got to school, and seeing that history in textbooks and academia, it was very interesting to me to see it in such a formalized way recognized. I really wanted to see more of how that was being taught and analyzed yeah.

J.R.: 9:41

Okay, so it's like a curiosity, but also links to your heritage and whatnot and your experience growing up.

Julie: 9:46

I mean ironically, I think I only took one history of like Vietnamese history class in college. The rest was, I think, more of the other Asian diaspora, just all the other cultures.

J.R.: 9:58

So that was cool. What were some of the?

Julie: 10:01

were there any that stood out to you that you remember a lot, that you got a lot from that you learned about, you know I didn't really know anything about Filipino, japanese, chinese-american history and the migration from Asia to America and how it was like for the early Asian generations when they first came here. What it was like at all, I had no idea. I think this was maybe before the 50s, so that was. That was because Vietnamese history for me a lot of what I learned it really all started around the fall of Saigon, which is the 70s and 80s and pretty much after 90s and all of the war, and that's really different from the life of Asian Americans before, when Filipipinos, japanese, chinese all migrated.

J.R.: 10:47

it's completely different so yeah, nothing I knew about yeah, did learning about all that stuff inform you? Well, it informed you, but did it change the way you saw present day or the communities around you in any way?

Julie: 11:01

not too much anything. It just helps me learn more about context. Yes, roots context, but nothing super deep in terms of if I were to interact with someone, I don't think it would have any it would go back to what I learned.

J.R.: 11:16

Oh, did you know that your family back in the thirties, exactly so that's our cultural heritage.

Julie: 11:21

Yeah, so that doesn't happen at all. So that's cultural heritage.

J.R.: 11:24

Yeah, so that doesn't happen at all. So taking a step back, so double majoring eventually and finishing how have your career aspirations evolved over time, from when you were a kid until getting settled into your current career fields?

Julie: 11:36

Oh yes. So in college there were so many signs that I really didn't want to be a dentist. But you know, I was really trying to. Just I grew up in a very traditional BDB's household, so I'm being as an only child. I was raised in such a way that I really wanted to be filial and respect my family's wishes, so I really had to make it through and see if I could be a dentist. But I mean, I just I really did not want to and it was in my free time. I spent so much of my free time doing stuff like designing websites, spending over 12 hours a day on the computer just tinkering on the internet. So how I got to where I am am which I'm a user experience designer slash also well, it's not the same thing, but also graphic designer was because after college I just got an offer to work at a creative marketing firm and.

Julie: 12:37

I at that point was already thinking this was when those software development boot camps are coming out like. I actually don't want to go into too much detail about all the Silicon Valley and all that at the time, but I know at the time it was really hot and one of my relatives told me that they could really see that I was really not wanting to be half a million dollars in debt in dental school and I was like, well, yes.

Julie: 13:01

So they said, you know, there's another way out of this. You could actually just finish school now and then go back to school, take the software, the coding, all the classes you want to take for software engineering, and just start over in a way. And it was a post baccalaureate kind of second bachelor's program and I was like, really Like you could do. That, I think, is that for me, growing up, there was just one way to live is you go to, you're in high school, you go to college, you have your career and that's it. Everything was already mapped out in that way, so it didn't occur to me to take the windy way around and that there were second options and things like that. So, yeah, in college I was starting to take information and computer science classes, building those prereqs. So if anything, I was trying to go for that triple major.

J.R.: 13:48

It was not a good idea.

Julie: 13:49

So by the time I graduated, yeah, I took that job as a graphic designer part time. I was trying to take software engineering classes as well, but I don't think I was passionate about coding because I would procrastinate so much and I would definitely was just always spending more time designing and doing things like that. And also a lot of my time was spent doing community work a lot of non-profit, vsa, vietnamese community work. Eventually, yeah, I didn't think software engineering was going to be my calling because I was not spending time building projects, and that's why now I became a UX designer, because after a certain period of time, that field had the culmination of everything that I already knew how to do, and it had all the values that I had, too, as a person.

Julie: 14:39

So I'm sure we'll talk more about that later. Yeah, we will.

J.R.: 14:40

I'm sure we'll talk more about that later. Yeah, we will. So I guess my question is what about, I guess computer science, but also the dentistry route Did you was not appealing to you? And then why was? Why were you finding yourself doing all this community stuff and then eventually going to like UX, ui and graphic design? I guess what inherently about that or about you drew you to those things.

Julie: 15:05

Ooh, you know the community stuff. A lot of the events that we did for the Vietnamese Student Associations was a lot of culture nights and just community events in general. And when I saw all of people our age at the time they just come together, they plan something and I see the fruits of their labor that energy was so attractive to me. I was like I want to be a part of something for the community because at the time I was in the audience and I was so inspired by it and I wanted to repeat that cycle, but instead I wanted to be part of the behind the scenes to do that work. So that was the appeal for me in community work.

Julie: 15:46

And also another thing was in being in the planning or organizing teams for those community work. I got to exercise a lot of my creative skills too. You get to practice being a meeting facilitator, how to be a mentor to others. Eventually you learn a lot of leadership building skills. So public speaking, all those things was.

Julie: 16:08

I got to practice and learn those things without high stakes of being fired for example, you're allowed to make mistakes and learn in those environments, so that was also a really great way for me to pick up all of these skills.

J.R.: 16:20

So that's the community work aspect was that, like the intent was to develop those skills, or is it just like you wanted to be in an environment but as a benefit you got all those like experiences?

Julie: 16:29

at first it started as oh, I wanted to be part of something and then later on I saw all those benefits and then they reversed. I stayed because I realized this was a great way to was it? What's that word? Incubate? It's like an incubator, yeah, like that. So that was that became. My priority is testing out ideas.

J.R.: 16:49

Yeah I like that a lot because I find that sometimes when people are in this sort of career identity crisis and they're not really sure what to do and they're going on this traditional path like what you were doing, in a sense, they're trying to find jobs but then those jobs don't hire because you don't have any experience and how do you get the jobs? But it's you found this space or these opportunities to get those skills, to do it in the lower stakes environment and it like incubate, like you said, but also I'm sure that helped you to figure out what you actually like doing your, what you're passionate about and being in those spaces. That gives you energy. Yeah, I feel like it's a really good takeaway and so I guess I'm safe. Is it safe to assume that it was just those signs that you weren't into software development and then you weren't really into like dentistry or like the bio field? You're just like I'm not really feeling this, but then all these other oh yeah, the dentistry.

Julie: 17:40

I mean, I honestly really like teeth. I mean people smile and I'm like wow, what a beautiful, safe teeth.

J.R.: 17:47

You know I like the aesthetics of your face, yeah.

Julie: 17:50

Yeah, but the reason I think I wasn't appealed by it was the idea of I would have to do it every single day. Oh, I see I see Going to work, and I mean obviously I didn't become a dentist, so I could definitely be misconstrued. No-transcript.

J.R.: 18:12

Like you're like I'm not sure if I want that.

Julie: 18:14

And also I had interned at a dentist's office for some time and, man, I already knew it was a bad idea. But I was already asking the dentist questions like do you think it's possible I could have a second career in addition to being a dentist? And they're just like I was, like, can I also be an artist in addition to my full-time job as a dentist? You just know at that time you're just asking for help like to escape, you know yeah I like that, okay.

J.R.: 18:43

So now going into ui ux, graphic design, marketing, baking. This is like the sandwich, the meat part of it. So how did you get? I guess you already told us how you got into it. You're doing these things and you figured out I don't like these things, I'm going to these things. Any other way that you could describe how you got into what you're doing right now? Like specifically yeah, my job right now, yeah specifically your job right now like the pathway to that?

Julie: 19:08

okay, yes, and my my path was long since I told you, you know, not taking my coding classes like I was supposed to, all the way through I I did work a long time at the creative marketing firm as the graphic designer, so I got to meet a lot of small business owners, people who worked in nonprofits and government agencies at the time. So that was my exposure to seeing what it's like to help with marketing and design for small businesses. And then, but with user experience UX that I took a class in, just one class at UCI when I was doing my prereqs and it was called human computer interaction and there was just this one chapter at the time that was talking about user experience.

Julie: 19:54

And this was so early on I don't really think there were that many jobs in that field so I wouldn't even have known not, nobody really knew that much about it unless you were really embedded in that industry at the time, at the time when I learned all of the heuristics which are the principles of a really good user experience is you know, some of the things would be principles of how you would know that a website or a product is a good user experience, and when I read through those principles I thought I'm like, oh, these are such. It seemed like common sense, something I recognized a lot when I was a kid. I used to design websites on GeoCities and those website builders as a kid and I was like, oh, like I feel like this is second nature for a lot of people, but I just never thought of it as a job because in my head I'm like no one's going to know what this is. It's, you know, fluff or whatever. So that was probably 2012 or 13. I never thought about it again after that, but I knew it was an up and coming field five years later. But then, yeah, I just super slept on it, super slept on it, and it wasn't until I was maybe in my mid to late 20s that I realized, yeah, like, this path to being an engineer is not working out and the skill sets I already had that I was constantly working on in what is it just passively was because I had that graphic design job.

Julie: 21:20

I just saw that the field was getting picking up more and I think I said this is probably the most viable career right now. They have skill sets, they already have. Why don't I just I'll take the bootcamp? So I signed up for our bootcamp because I specifically wanted a mentor to help me guide through. How do you get your foot in this field? Because when you're looking at the requirements to get your foot in this field, because when you're looking at the requirements to get a job in this field, it seems not what's the word Not very concrete. Oh, I see A lot of. It has to do with being able to have a lot of empathy in order to succeed in this field, but you know that's not something you can really quantify when someone's interviewing you Show me you're empathetic.

J.R.: 22:03

How does empathy play a role in this field? Because you buy UX right.

Julie: 22:07

Yes, and when you're doing user experience, you're thinking about someone else's experience the entire time, I see, yeah.

Julie: 22:13

So you have to be able to not let your own biases affect what you want to make. It's not about you, it's about humans, and one of our principles is human-centered design. All the problems you're trying to solve are to solve other humans problems, and so I think you know when, for example, if someone asks you like what do you think of this design or this product experience, it's very easy to be like oh well, I thought this was problematic. This was frustrating for me, me, me, me. But in my field you have to do research to see what, how it affects everybody else, especially representation too. Everyone uses digital things very differently. Depends on if you are colorblind, if you can't use a keyboard or a mouse or what else is there. You don't have access to certain devices that we have to think about how people can get access to this information in all those different ways, not just the most tech-savvy user.

J.R.: 23:10

I see, okay, taking a step back, would you mind defining user experience and user interface, or UI, ux for the audience and how they're different and how they're intertwined?

Julie: 23:19

I should have brought my worksheet.

J.R.: 23:22

You can link to it if you have something online. Yeah, that's true.

Julie: 23:25

I think the link actually is ux. It's not uicom. I don't know.

J.R.: 23:29

Anyway.

Julie: 23:30

So user experience, don't take it verbatim.

J.R.: 23:34

Take it verbatim.

Julie: 23:35

I think it's a very fluid definition, depending on which school of thought you're going into.

J.R.: 23:40

So it's a good question.

Julie: 23:41

then let's just start with UI, user interface. That's the look of your interface. For example, let's just say when you're driving your car now a lot of cars have that console where you press the buttons. That's the interface, that's what you're working with, the buttons, how they look. Someone thought about all the colors, the sizes and things, which is what you're seeing. Yes, this interface, even when you're in an ATM machine, all the buttons you're pressing on. That's the interface, that's your user interface.

Julie: 24:10

But user experience is how you interact with a thing itself. So if we actually take it back to times before there was computers, it would be the experience of how you use this cup. That would be the user experience. Like a teak, was it a kettle or a pot or something with the handles? Those are things we call well, maybe I'm getting too technical, I was going to call it affordances. But let's imagine if your cup didn't have that handle. Then you would just, I don't know, maybe it's less easy for you to grab onto it, but that handle gives you that affordance. Someone who designs these products, these physical products, are thinking about the user's experience.

J.R.: 24:49

So, it's the how, essentially of how, the product works, gotcha, so it's more of that how you interact with the thing, as opposed to just the user interface, which is like what you're seeing.

Julie: 24:59

Yes, correct, the beauty of it. That's the beauty. So, going back to the digital, but nowadays, because our world is very technological, now there's the field for user experience, design in a digital sense, and so whenever you're using a website or a product, an application, a piece of software, we think about, obviously, how it looks too, but how you use the thing, so that we take you through it and make sure it doesn't it gets you to your end goal. We need to get people to get to what they need as quickly or as pleasantly as possible or like intuitively, ideally right.

Julie: 25:35

Yeah, and you know, honestly, my field it doesn't. It's not limited to just digital experiences. When you're going to the airport and how you navigate around the airport, and signage, all of those things are all part of the user experience.

J.R.: 25:48

I see, okay, I guess to follow up to that, it's a two-parter, but what are the biggest challenges of being a UI UX designer or being in the field, and maybe what are some lessons or takeaways that you would give to someone in the field or coming into the field or want to be in this field?

Julie: 26:06

Okay, so first part is what's most difficult about my field? Okay, I think it depends on what level you're at, but let's say, since I've been in the field for about five years now, specifically as a user experience designer, in the beginning it was really difficult to know what the right quote, unquote, the right solution or problem was. There's always so many ways to solve a problem. It's like art, right? Yeah, what do you think? What do you think of that?

J.R.: 26:34

Yeah, yeah, because it's not a. Yeah, what do you think? What do you think of that? Yeah, yeah, because it's not a. This is the exact way to do the thing. It's not from A to B. It's kind of like there's different ways, but an experience is subjective.

Julie: 26:43

Yes, yes, and also because I didn't have as much experience at the time, I probably didn't have all the tools in my toolkit to know how to get to that, how to narrow it down as quickly as possible, so I think I was just constantly paralyzed by how do I know what would be the best experience for people. But then, later on, research is probably what helps the most Getting all the qualitative and quantitative data and analyzing it to truly understand your audience and your target people that you're trying to help. That really informs a lot of what the solution should be. Yes, but nowadays I think my new challenge is strategizing and thinking about the long term, what's sustainable in terms of solving problems and, yeah, thinking about big picture stuff a lot of big picture. At the time, it was more about like, how do I do the thing but now it's more of like how do I make an impact with what I'm doing?

J.R.: 27:48

Do you have any examples of that sort of strategy level challenges that you're thinking of?

Julie: 27:54

I think okay, well, let's just start with limiting it to the workplace. Like the product you're working on, A lot of it now is thinking about how it'll affect the business. So my title actually at work is product design. So I'm not actually called a user experience designer. That's just what our field and craft is, but my title is product design because product also includes thinking of the business aspect is how is this all going to help the product grow? And I don't know, helpful to the business itself.

Julie: 28:29

Yeah, so when I make decisions and think about the solution, it's thinking about both the business and the user. Now too, how it will benefit the business, but how it will also be feasible technically in terms of development. Is this even possible to create at this time with the tech that we have available? Will it be within budget? And will it meet our timelines or will it go over story points or something?

Julie: 28:58

I'm going way too much into detail right now. But and then also, just yeah, is it desirable, is this going to do well in the marketplace? But let's say we're not talking business anymore, and workplace, let's just say it's just a human problem.

Julie: 29:12

You know, if we're trying to come up with an idea to help people get from place to place maybe someone who needs transportation access because they cannot drive themselves, or something. I'm thinking long-term strategizing is that? What resources do we have available? And let's just say we come up with an idea, are we going to have money? Is this going to be an impact to the environment? Those are just long-term things that we got to think about that I normally wouldn't think about if I was just trying to get my feet wet.

J.R.: 29:37

I see. So now you have all this experience and I think you had a higher level of connecting the business side of it and the I guess, the product side of it and user experience. What about any takeaways or lessons that you would pass on to someone aspiring to get to? Let's say where you are today.

Julie: 29:53

Yeah, well, right now the job market for my industry is very bad. So in the sense that it's bad, just because you know there were I'm sure you know about all the layoffs in the tech industry the last two to three years. So there's a lot more candidates in the job market now and less jobs, and also employers are currently really selective too, too. Because there's such an influx of people who are applying for jobs, not everyone's applications are getting seen. There's just no way. There's thousands of applicants in the pool.

Julie: 30:25

Right now. I've heard that the only really way is if you know someone, referrals and things like that, but right now I think it's just practice Practice. That's what I'm currently doing right now, too, in order to stay competitive and sharp, because I've met with mentors over the years and I always ask, like, how do I stay competitive, how do I get to the next level? And it really always comes down to doing the reps and practicing, and that was a concept that has followed me ever since college. I'm a huge procrastinator and the reasons I failed in certain things was because I did not do the work, I did not practice. I didn't do well in O camp because I didn't do the practice. Math I could have done better, but I didn't do my homework. So it still follows me to this day. If I wanted to excel in anything, you just have to put in the work every single day, and maybe you don't have to be obsessed, but you just have to put in the work, and I think that's really what it comes down to.

J.R.: 31:27

That's it. So then, just to keep working on your craft, put in the reps and continuously try to get better. Yeah.

Julie: 31:34

And just getting started. I'm someone who's paralyzed a lot about getting started and I just keep avoiding putting it off. But maybe just take a chip at it little by little.

J.R.: 31:46

What do you think causes people to procrastinate and put it off?

Julie: 31:50

Me.

J.R.: 31:50

Like people in general, but maybe you I guess People I don't know.

Julie: 31:53

I won't speak for people You're not people. Yeah, I would have to do research and interview people, just like how I would do at work. That's the method. But if I would draw from my own experiences, fear, fear is what keeps me from getting started and really tackling the problem head on. Fear of failure and not meeting expectations that are usually that. I've created a narrative for myself being so hard on oneself. That's maybe another factor that goes into it.

J.R.: 32:24

But you've done a lot of things, so how did you overcome it in those instances?

Julie: 32:29

Oh, what do you mean by a lot of things?

J.R.: 32:30

Well, I mean, you've gotten somewhere in life.

Julie: 32:33

Oh, right, right, so you've done a lot of things and you've achieved a lot of things.

J.R.: 32:34

You've gotten somewhere in life, oh, right, right. So you've done a lot of things and you've achieved a lot of things. So if fear stops people and fear failure or something like that, how have you managed to still make progress on the things that you are doing?

Julie: 32:46

I think a lot of it. One certain things that I already was intrinsically motivated to do, so that one is not as uncomfortable because you want to do that, you want to pursue those things, but the things that you don't want to do are the ones that are hard and can we just do things we want to do, then right, but if you just do that all the time, I don't think you'll be as apt to grow, and that was something that I had heard a really long time ago, when I was in my early 20s.

Julie: 33:14

Was you know? If you're feeling uncomfortable, that's when you know you're growing and you know not. A lot of people, I think, like to be uncomfortable, meaning not saying that they aren't being uncomfortable, but it's not. No one likes to feel that way right.

Julie: 33:26

So pleasant like I would like to be uncomfortable today yeah, you don't voluntarily want to, but it's just constantly putting yourself in that position in order to just what's that thing? I heard recently that I really like iron. What is it? Iron sharpens iron yes, that one yeah, so it's okay, it's not the same.

J.R.: 33:42

But it's a great saying though yeah, it is right.

Julie: 33:45

Yeah, I, I do have to force myself sometimes to be on put myself in positions I don't like, because I know that it's going to build my character.

J.R.: 33:54

You know it's worth it in the long run.

Julie: 33:55

Yeah, but I'm not at that level where I do it enough that I'm growing exponentially. It's just baby steps for me still, because at the end of the day I just I'm a bit lazy and given to you know certain things that I really think are comfortable. But you know, I think what was the question? Original question again. Just wait, what was the question? Original question again just wait.

J.R.: 34:17

What was the original question?

Julie: 34:18

yeah, I felt like I was rambling no, I think you got it.

J.R.: 34:21

I think I was like okay, we hit it, but everything else is great oh yeah, what stops people? Yeah, yeah, I guess from fear, because you mentioned yeah, like, what stops people from putting in the reps and doing the thing maybe.

Julie: 34:30

Just not knowing what's, there's no guarantee. I think that's another one too there's no guarantee.

J.R.: 34:35

So you're saying we need guarantees to take action.

Julie: 34:38

I don't think we need guarantees. It's the unknown. You don't know if you're going to get the results you want and you're paralyzed. Is it even worth it?

J.R.: 34:47

I have a great question for you later during rapid fire. Then All right, so we're going to have to pick and choose the next topic. So I have three for you. One is baking, Two is helping small businesses and community and connecting people with resources, et cetera. And three is community organizing and volunteering, Like what I guess we made it. We might've answered that already, but the question was like what draws you to those things and what can you share about those areas with the audience? So one of those three topics- we can do baking.

Julie: 35:21

Maybe it'll be a little holistic, a little more invigorating or different.

J.R.: 35:23

It will apply to yeah, okay, so then how did you get into baking? What fascinates you most about baking and what do you think people get wrong about baking?

Julie: 35:29

all right. Well, I got into baking because as a kid my auntie she loved to bake and and I think I was like four or five and those were the activities she would teach me to do how to cut fruit, pick berries from the neighbor's house, come home, make carrot cake, berry cakes, and so I was just always in that environment growing up with my aunt. And then growing up, I really like the texture of how frosting is spread and also like how, when you scoop ice cream and it just looks perfectly spherical and has the beautiful fringe. Thank you, breyers, for your amazing photography. Yeah, oh, my God, I don't know if you saw that growing up Hagen-Dazs commercials. I was like, wow, that's perfection in, in in our human lives so I can see why you do what you do now.

J.R.: 36:21

Yeah, you like the beauty of things and the experience of things yeah, oh my gosh.

Julie: 36:25

Yes, yeah, so with cake baking, it's that aspiration to be able to recreate that. But the third question was was it? How do I get into what?

J.R.: 36:35

fascinates you about it. And then, what do you think people I don't know misunderstand or might not know about baking like an insider's perspective.

Julie: 36:43

I hear a lot about people saying that baking is a very precise art. You have to get all of the measurements correct, et cetera, et cetera.

J.R.: 36:52

Like cooking, but I guess baking is a little bit….

Julie: 36:54

More precise than cooking, because people like to compare it to cooking, saying that with cooking you can eyeball things, throw it in and it'll be fine, I see, and baking, they say you're. It's not like that, is it because?

J.R.: 37:04

baking is essentially a more I don't want to say more aesthetic, but chemistry.

Julie: 37:08

Okay, yeah, right, okay, makes sense because you have to get it right. Yes, because if, let's, if you get measurements off, the timing, the heat, all those things will it will affect it. Oh, you know, and the thing I do dislike about baking that you and I get a lot of anxiety from baking actually. So I do it because I think it's therapeutic, but the process is so anxiety inducing for me because I have so many expectations. Exciting, do you see, for me, because I have so many expectations, is it's you have to be very patient because you're putting in all of this work to put, make the batter, get all your materials ready.

Julie: 37:43

It's such what's that word when you're putting in everything in the beginning and you wait for the payoff, front loading it I guess, something like that, yeah, and so you don't know what the end result is going to be until like hours later and you have to eat the thing to also know that, oh, I did a good job, you know. So that's. The most frustrating part is that you don't know. You have to eat it. Yeah, that's true Sometimes, or is it?

J.R.: 38:05

part of the data gathering.

Julie: 38:07

What do you mean?

J.R.: 38:08

Like meaning. The question is why do you?

Julie: 38:11

have to eat it. Well, I mean, presumably you would eat the thing you cook, right, but a lot of times you don't either it could just be for someone else. And that's even more worrying because now it's subject to someone else's taste okay, so it's the eating.

Julie: 38:23

It is not necessarily because it's a reward, but it's because you get to experience the end result yes, not only the look of it, but yeah that's true, I guess, depending on your priorities, if you're doing it because you want it to make something beautiful. For me in the in the last couple years, I did not focus on the aesthetics at all. I really just wanted to make a quality cake.

J.R.: 38:40

Quality meaning taste.

Julie: 38:42

Yes, yeah, because I mean, I think it's a little easier to make something look good than to actually focus on the substance itself.

J.R.: 38:48

Oh, I see. So then now you've pivoted towards also caring about the….

Julie: 38:54

Yeah, because I think I've put in enough practice that I am comfortable with achieving that level of quality a certain level of quality, like the taste, yeah, yeah.

Julie: 39:03

And like I know what I like now and so now I can start practicing the other thing.

Julie: 39:07

But your original question was what people get maybe misconstrued about baking is, I think I realized lately is that, having put in a lot of practice, more and more you actually feel like you could freestyle a little.

Julie: 39:22

It's not so much that I'm starting to put in more ingredients than or eyeballing things I mean people cooks, professional chefs can do that too but it's the ease and comfortability, knowing that if something goes wrong, know how to mitigate that's the superpower I feel like with baking now. Is that before if something went wrong, I burned it. It's like all of your hard work. I was just like man. I just put in two and a half hours and like it's, the thing's not edible or whatever. But now I can basically patch up and do a lot of damage control and for me I think that's makes me feel really empowered when it comes to problem solving and other areas of life too is that if you spend enough time practicing and being comfortable with whatever it is that you're working on in your craft, you'll know your own loopholes and the ways, ins and outs.

Julie: 40:13

You can wield that sword in your way really well as opposed to feeling oh, if this way doesn't work, you're just like okay.

J.R.: 40:23

I mean that's it.

Julie: 40:24

I have no other plan A's, B's, C's or anything.

J.R.: 40:29

So let's correct me if I'm wrong. Once you get to that level of skill in something, you're more able to be flexible and adapt and handle those situations that you're not expecting, because you have that level of skill to freestyle it and, yes, and be flexible yes, and that's honestly the, the marker or milestone that I'm seeking.

Julie: 40:48

Whenever, like with work, for example, like when I finally got to a level where I felt comfortable, I was like, oh my gosh, thank goodness, you know. Now I feel like I'm at the top of some at least. Maybe not the top of the mountain, but I've made it to a point where I can see everything, because I spent so much time trying to get up, like I could not see what was happening, what the point was, the big picture. So getting to that point where you can really take in like, wow, this is how much I've been able to do so far. And now I know, in the next ladder up, how to re-strategize and make it more efficient.

J.R.: 41:20

I like that. I feel like that's applicable to a lot of things. Right, it's try to get that level of skill where you're comfortable and then now you have the more flexibility to figure out your own style and approach to things. But you have to learn the rules inside the box and develop a certain level of competency.

Julie: 41:35

Yeah.

J.R.: 41:35

I like that a lot. Okay, let's move on. I guess it's on the same vein, but the few things that I want to touch on, or I guess you can pick and choose. One is you mentioned upgrading your life's operating system from Julie 1.0 to Julie 2.0. To explain what that means? Or two, how does one get better at their craft? I guess we talked about that.

Julie: 42:05

And then three. Could you elaborate on this? I know nothing. Mentality yes, I'll do the first and third, yeah, so I'm creating a my life's operating system I need. Back in the day, maybe during college, I used to name my calendars like julie 1.0, julie 2.0, because I had this expectation for myself at the time is that my 2.0 is just a better version of myself than the last one, and so in its calendars, because it's old, this year I want to have reached a certain level of what is it like being maybe like a better public speaker or maybe I'm more mature in certain areas of thinking things like that, and also because I know that at the time I was trying to be like into tech and all that, and so that's just how my mind worked, you know, just upgrading the systems and everything, but it's yeah. After, during high school, all throughout after that, I was really just so deeply interested. I invested in self-development and productivity sort of, but a lot of self-development.

J.R.: 43:03

I don't know why.

Julie: 43:04

It's not because it's some trend that I just picked up, it was just, I think I was already programmed to always want to become a better person in some way, be a better human really, and so I loved reading books like Chicken Soup for the Soul and all those things reading about people's life experiences and stories in pursuit of lifelong learning. I just wanted to know what was out there and how to just not be ignorant. And what's that other C word that I really being complacent? I think that was the one thing I really feared was being complacent of a person. I really feared was being complacent of a person.

Julie: 43:41

So that's, why it all kind of funnels into me trying to upgrade my system is that oh, maybe I was just trying to be like a chat DBT at the time. Just know everything. Well, yeah, just pursuit of knowledge, that's where it comes from. But the third thing you asked was about I know nothing. Mentality is yeah, I thought that if I approached life as if I didn't know anything, I would be more receptive to learning things because Like an empty cup.

Julie: 44:08

Yes, and also I would credit my father for teaching me this, because as a kid I don't know why I said I know, I know, you know your parents are always nagging you and you're just like I know. And so he told me he was just like. You need to shut that down, because you're not going to learn anything in life if you keep saying I know, because someone will obviously know something that you don't and you've already cut them off. You're already cutting yourself off from that pool of knowledge. And I was like of course I know, I'm just kidding.

J.R.: 44:34

Obviously, I know that, Dad yeah.

Julie: 44:36

So, yes, and it's absolutely true. Yes, and it's absolutely true. Whenever I meet people, or just anyone in general, I really try to just act as if I know nothing, because most of the time I really don't. I want to know how life is from their perspective, and that is what informs me about quality of life in general. What else is out there? Yeah?

J.R.: 44:57

I like that a lot. It reminds me of that one. Saying where it's the most expensive thing you can own is a closed mind. Similar vein.

Julie: 45:06

Oh.

J.R.: 45:06

Because it like closes off opportunities and potential to grow, like what you're saying. If you have that closed mind of I already know everything or I know all this stuff, yeah, but being open-minded or having that empty cup allows you to grow a lot more and improve your life in many ways. Oh yeah.

Julie: 45:24

Having an open mind is one of the most important things to me. It's just living in this life. I mean, obviously I'm not perfect at it, but it's just that pillar that I'm really constantly trying to live by. I like it.

J.R.: 45:38

Cool. Anything else on that topic you want to? Before we jump into rapid fire questions. Cool, all right. So we have maybe 10 ish minutes, so we'll see how fast this goes. Rapid fire questions you ready? Okay first question, billboard question. I can say this without looking. If you could put up a sign for millions of people to see, what would it say?

Julie: 45:56

everyone is different. That's what I would put, and then maybe in small isish taller text underneath, to let people know that not everyone's experience is the same. Their perspective will be different, so you can't judge your experience or judge why things happen the way they do by your own experience only. Everyone is going to experience it differently.

J.R.: 46:15

Yeah, be open-minded. It's like you're a user experience expert.

Julie: 46:20

It's about empathy. There you go, there you go.

J.R.: 46:23

What is one of the hardest challenges you face and what did you learn from?

Julie: 46:25

it. One of the hardest things was, I mentioned early on, I grew up in a very traditional Asian household and being able to marry the values in American life and traditional Vietnamese life was really difficult with my family. Yeah, that was probably one of the hardest things I had to navigate with parents and without going into too much detail. Yeah, it was a little bit psychologically damaging, so yeah, so that was. Yeah, that was probably one of the hardest things ever makes sense.

J.R.: 46:59

I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that.

Julie: 47:00

Oh yeah, yeah, you know, of course, a self-inflicted wound'm sure a lot of people can relate to that.

J.R.: 47:02

Oh yeah, yeah, you know, of course, a self-inflicted wound. Do you have a story or a lesson about something that's gone wrong and it was your fault?

Julie: 47:09

Yeah, just all the times where, like I mentioned, you know, failing classes or just not, it's because I didn't do the work. I didn't were you. That's probably one of the most like, lamest and shameful things is, you know you should be doing something but you're not doing it, and yeah, that's the self-inflicted wound. So I know like I could have achieved xyz, but I didn't, because I just want to do something else instead. That I don't know. I don't know why, but maybe I should stop saying laziness, but it's just.

J.R.: 47:41

It's just be a lack of motivation.

Julie: 47:43

Yeah.

J.R.: 47:44

I feel like some people. Well, in that vein we should give ourself grace because we do. There's a lot of things we don't want to do, but also what intrinsically motivates us. I feel is a big part of that, because when I think about motivation for people, they can easily do the things they want to do, but when I notice someone not doing the thing that they say they want to do, I just tell them straight up. Then you clearly don't want to do it because you're not doing it.

J.R.: 48:07

If you wanted to do it, you would be doing it right now, like when people in college would be like hey, jr, teach me how to dance. And like I appreciate your sentiment, but I know you don't want to learn, because if you actually wanted to learn how to dance you'd be learning right now, but that sort of thing. But I totally get that. So these might be the same, but it might be different. First one is if you could redo one thing, what would you do differently? And the second one is if you could give your younger self advice, what would it?

Julie: 48:33

be Okay. First one is what I would do differently is probably have gotten started career-wise earlier, because I had mentioned earlier I took a long route to get to my things I'm doing now. But had I done those things earlier because I was already just doing it for fun? If I had just done it earlier, it would have helped a lot in tangible ways Like, of course, job, growth, finances, all those things would have been Compounded earlier.

Julie: 49:00

Yes, correct Things, having started earlier. But in terms of advice to my younger self is you had mentioned it earlier is to give yourself grace, not being so hard on yourself, that I'm doing fine and being kinder to myself. Yeah, that would have been something I would have needed back then.

J.R.: 49:18

I like it. In the last few years, what new belief, behavior or habit has improved your life?

Julie: 49:23

Ooh, a breathing.

J.R.: 49:26

Not just breathing, yeah, not passively breathing, oh like Julie, I feel like you should have been doing that a long time ago. For the first 30 years of her life, she's just yes.

Julie: 49:38

My first breath chair. Yes, actively breathing and slowing down those two things Not being so quick to react I mean, I'm already slow at certain things these days, like eating more slowly and being slow to make conclusions and stuff. My physiological sense is slowing down the reactions and those thought processes so that I'm not quick to jump to other conclusions and things, but breathing. I think that that helps a lot with calming the anxiety and the spiraling, all that stuff.

J.R.: 50:14

I like that. If you wait, how do you define success?

Julie: 50:22

Well, right, and the first thing that popped in my head was happiness, peace, balance. That's something I've always been trying to strive for in the last 10 or so years is a balance between everything that I want to feel have, pursue all of that. Everything that I want to feel have, pursue all of that. You know, I heard some advice about a year or two ago when I was going through a really hard time and I was told that, you know, balance was what it takes to achieve that contentment. Because sometimes, when you're working so hard to be I don't know, let's say, a certain goal and you're seeking extreme values like being really really happy, or you're feeling really, really sad, but if you're just balanced at all times, you will feel neither of those things because you're always at equilibrium. It's kind of a really weird concept that I can't do justice in explaining it equilibrium it's kind of a really weird concept that I can't do justice in explaining it, but that's where I want to be in terms of controlling my emotions and thought processes.

J.R.: 51:31

Maybe more on that next time, yeah, yeah no, I get what you're saying, but I do like that thought at the moment. Okay, next one too. It's another both sides of the coin. If you knew you couldn't fail, what would you be doing right now? Oh and if you knew you would absolutely fail, what would you be doing?

Julie: 51:46

wait. Okay, I'll start with the first one. If I knew I wouldn't fail, what I would be doing? Oh man, maybe trying to be a ceo of something like some big company, or why I?

J.R.: 51:56

don't. Why do you want to be a ceo of a big company?

Julie: 51:58

about okay. So I actually always wanted to just build my own empire. I just don't know what it is all the time, because you just don't know how well it's going to do what draws you to wanting to be at the top of this empire?

J.R.: 52:09

what thoughts drive you towards that?

Julie: 52:13

well, maybe. Well, if I was building my own empire, I don't have to, I guess, work for somebody else, right, I'll be in total control of my projects and ideas and how? The freedom to create things that's what it is freedom to create things yes I'm not power hungry at all, I'm not that type of person. It's just having the freedom to, to, to make things and see how it goes, I see.

J.R.: 52:44

So if you knew you absolutely would fail, what would you be doing anyways?

Julie: 52:48

Oh, something like just making art or something like that. I think with that one, that's also another new lesson I've been trying to instill. When I'm doing it is not trying to make it reach a certain standard or level, it's just doing it for the sake of feeling the process and being happy with each movement, motion, being grateful that I can even do this right now, having this moment to make this brush stroke or have the time to draw or paint, and being present. Yeah, that's what art provides me right now, and there's no failure in that. Really, I think the only failure is not being able to do it at all.

J.R.: 53:27

Okay, you can pick or choose what is something that you've been pondering deeply or what is one of your favorite hot takes.

Julie: 53:34

One of my favorite hot takes. I'm not answering that one, you're like nope, dodging that trap.

J.R.: 53:41

It could be like the way I approach it is something that I believe is true and I don't mind saying it, but I think other people won't necessarily agree with it. So it's not necessarily like controversial, it's just probably most people don't agree. But I think it's true. But it doesn't have to be that.

Julie: 53:55

You could also be pondering deeply yeah, I don't have anything ready for that second question but, it's a good question.

Julie: 54:07

I don't have anything ready for it, but what's something I've been pondering deeply? You know, I think about my purpose all of the time. I saw that one of your previous episodes was about finding your ikigai as well, so I know I've talked to you about that. But I think my purpose even though you know generally what you gravitate towards I'm trying to figure out what it could look like in a lot of different forms and ways. Yeah, I'm just always thinking about that, my purpose. What do I do now with that knowledge? I don't think just because I have to make that decision now. I just want to know what I can just do with it now and let it just be a work in progress. Being okay with that yeah, I was just telling my partner earlier on the way here is realizing that it's okay to not have to have arrived at the answers right away. It's just being in the middle and pondering. Someone told me smart people just say I don't know.

J.R.: 54:54

So oh, I like. So you're smart. Then, since you always think about I know nothing, cool. What is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you've ever made in either time, money, energy or et cetera?

Julie: 55:06

Time, money, energy, et cetera.

J.R.: 55:09

Any sort of investment.

Julie: 55:12

Investment. You know I get a lot of flack for being too nice of a person. You're nice, yes, yes, and sometimes I could do things to my own detriment, even my father used to say you should really help yourself out first before you help others.

Julie: 55:30

But I really don't regret all of the energy I put into being there for someone else. I mean I've lately been trying to work on overextending and things to having boundaries of boundaries, of course, but I mean that's just really who I am at my core. I don't think that's something I should be ashamed of or take back. Even at the time, you know, I could feel really stupid, but at the end of the day I'm like just just me being my truest self and I should be proud of that, okay.

J.R.: 55:58

Favorite recent purchase in the 50 to 100 range that has impacted your life the most recently in the last six months or so. It's a consumerism question.

Julie: 56:08

You know my QuietComfort Bose headphones. I've always wanted always canceling headphones. But my head is quite large so you know hats and things like that. It really constricts my head. But the quiet comfort ones, they feel like a pillow on my head. It's so comfortable and the cancellation is super effective. So nowadays I constantly look at it. I'm like what did I ever do without? Like how could I have lived this long?

J.R.: 56:38

without you. I needed you my whole life. Yeah, how much are they?

Julie: 56:42

Probably like 250 or something like on during a black Friday sale.

J.R.: 56:46

Yeah, Okay, gotcha.

Julie: 56:48

Hopefully. Oh, I think Costco has it less less cute color.

J.R.: 56:51

It's Solomon saying it's a lot more.

Julie: 56:52

But I think it is, I really think it is more if it's worth it, right, all right.

J.R.: 56:58

Last one Any media recommendations you can give to the audience Books, movies, videos, music, et cetera.

Julie: 57:04

Oh, books. I just watched the Accountant. That was really good. I also recommend it. Books, no, not books right now. Oh man, I wish I had a really good answer for this.

J.R.: 57:15

Okay, man, you can stick with that.

Julie: 57:17

I'm normally really passionate about this stuff, but I don't have it it.

J.R.: 57:19

I'm normally really passionate about this stuff, but I don't have it. It's all good, if you want to send me it, I'll put it in the links. Here's Julie's reaction. She did not mention the episode.

Julie: 57:25

Right right, right Cool.

J.R.: 57:27

All right, that's in a rapid fire so we can go into ending. So thank you so much. First off is gratitude Shout out to my mom. What are you grateful for?

Julie: 57:40

my partner.

J.R.: 57:41

Oh, where is he right now?

Julie: 57:43

Somewhere.

J.R.: 57:44

Somewhere in your shot In a five foot radius of us.

Julie: 57:49

Yeah, I think my partner, he has taught me so many lessons about life. He's, you know, in my head a little transcendent in terms of like, like like how you're thinking.

J.R.: 58:05

You know I go, you know I'm a very, very nice way to say it next time like oh yeah, my friend, they're very trends transcendent you know.

Julie: 58:10

Yeah, in in the ways of thinking very philosophical person and just yeah, when I'm having trouble with me in my head and thinking about stuff I can always count on my partner to. Maybe not having all the answers is the right way of saying it. I'm sure there's a more precise way of describing this, but it's.

J.R.: 58:30

Like giving you perspective, taking yourself out of your head. Very wise.

Julie: 58:34

He's just a very wise person, yeah.

J.R.: 58:36

Nice, cool. Second question Any final ask from the audience or any final takeaways you'd like them to have from the show.

Julie: 58:44

No man, I really wish I had a cool answer too, but I'm someone who just really likes to keep things really simple and, yeah, honestly, I think that's something to I value. Well, maybe that's the hot take is sometimes there's you don't need less is more. Oh, I see Actually, a recent guest said that too.

J.R.: 59:02

Just keeping it simple is sometimes the best you don't need less is more. Oh, I see, actually a recent guest said that too. Just keeping it simple is sometimes the best thing you can do. Yeah, I like it all right. Last one, julie, where can we find you social media handles, websites, etc. If you want to check out what you're up to, or connect or anything like that okay, I'll link it, so it'll all be there.

Julie: 59:18

But yeah, if you want to shout it out yeah, I'm not super active on this account, because this is where I keep all my designs, designs once in a while, but it's just because I have account, an account for different things I do, like baking, and then my personal one is just for friends and things too. I mean, professionally speaking, I am on linkedin, so there's that.

Julie: 59:36

That's a good way, but to keep up with actually I don't post on that either maybe the best way is to contact me in person to meet up, hang out or video calls. I'm really big on virtual chats too, so I really am a big proponent of connecting in the human physical in-person way these days.

J.R.: 1:00:02

So they have to catch you in person to connect with you, or in real life, yeah, yeah, I hear catch 22 in my head.

Julie: 1:00:10

It's like all right, you can connect with me, you just gotta find me first, yeah yeah, I think I really like one-on-one settings and being able to just learn from people, hear their story, and just there was. I don't think there was time, but during the pandemic there was this service. It was called like Lunch Club or whatever it is. Oh I see, but people would make appointments to just talk to someone randomly at the time because we couldn't see anyone.

J.R.: 1:00:34

That was cool. I think I was on that and I had two meetings. Oh yeah yeah, it was fun. I just kind of whatever.

Julie: 1:00:39

Yeah, they don't have it anymore Lunchclubai. I think that it was nice.

J.R.: 1:00:43

Okay, julie. Well, that is it. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Obviously, there's a lot of what you said I resonate with and I think that's why I really admire and respect you as a person and also your career journey, and I feel like that's why we vibe really well, because I feel like we have similar values. You're a very human person and very creative, so I think that's one of the big things I admire about you Cool.

J.R.: 1:01:05

So if nothing else, then I'll do my final sign off. This is where the music starts playing. So thank you guys for being here. I really appreciate it. Follow, comment, like, subscribe all that cool stuff. I don't usually plug, but I should probably start doing that now. And just a reminder to be kind to other people, especially yourself, and remember that you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen. Thanks for being here.