[00:00:00] 

J.R.: Hello everyone and welcome back to another fun episode of One Thousand Gurus with me, your host, J.R. Yono Cruz.

I'm recording this intro on January 5th back into the new year. This is probably gonna be like mid to late February when you guys hear this episode. So hopefully your year is going well.

I absolutely love this episode. We were finally able to get Rani back on the show. He was guru number one on episode number one, and this is now season 7 67 episodes later. So this is episode 68.

We get into some very hilarious topics and also some intellectually deep topics.

Disclaimer, this is one of those one thousand guru episodes to not take too seriously, as is the case, whenever I have some of my closest friends on the show.

We talk about his career pivot into software engineering and how he managed to get a job four months out of his bootcamp. So we're picking up right where we left off from episode one when he said he was going into that field.

We talk about his thoughts on Japan and traveling [00:01:00] internationally. His changing views on slowly becoming conservative and having an issue with pronouns. We talk about self-care. The 10 different types of friends you can have. A discussion on male covert depression from a book that I read recently.

Rani's Love Life, and then a discussion on our own personal red flags.

I really enjoyed this very wide ranging and unserious conversation and I hope you do too.

So without further ado, please enjoy this semi-random show episode featuring my friend Rani.

Hello and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus. Rani, welcome back to the show. Oh, hello. It's been a, it's been a while. Pleasure to be back. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a long while actually. So we were talking about this off camera or off recording, but, so obviously viewers should know you got, you were the first guest on the show, episode one, and now you're back for season seven, episode 68.

So we've come a long way. I'm actually really happy to have you come back because we were in studio, obviously we're remote now, [00:02:00] but to see, have you experience what the show is like, how it's different, how it's pretty much the same. Running it back, getting your life updates. Obviously this is like a selfish project of mine so I can talk with my friends like in a structured way and force them to book time.

So yeah, and we're gonna do a semi-random show format, so we have some topics that we talked about off, off camera and maybe go into some random topics after that. But I will go into life updates and your new career where we left off in the last episode. So TL;DR, like, what have you been up to, man?

Rani: So first of all, thank you so much. I'm excited to be back over here. I've been following obviously One Thousand Guru since I was the first person here and has grown so much. Obviously a variety of topics. And I think the biggest thing that I wanted to make sure that I'm able to do as well is just be able to talk more.

'cause being your friend for so long we've been able to like, like, have just a variety of topics that we could easily like go into. Topic and an update since my first time being [00:03:00] here. Number one, last time I was here I was on my way to New York to become a software engineer, and now I have a software engineer job and a role.

So I am, you know, I did that whole shebang, which was a very interesting thing. But I will say just going back to what I was, the transcripts or going back to our first episode, yeah I think I, I still follow the same things, which is sometimes you just gotta do things and keep going at it until, you know what I mean, until things happen.

So that's where I'm at. I am, yeah, I've been in my role for almost a year now, and in the middle of that I've just been traveling. Learning more about life and being able to experience more new experiences essentially. So, Hmm. Yeah. Excited to be here. Excited to talk about very cool things.

What have you been up to recently? 

J.R.: Well, we'll get into this, but I think the biggest thing is just my trip from Japan. Um mm-hmm. My trip from Japan, like for two weeks was a lot of fun. It was planned. I feel like at this [00:04:00] point it's gonna be an annual trip. I've gone there like almost every year for the last couple years, so, or last few years I guess.

But yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah. Show's going strong. Seventh season, we're re we're prerecording this, this will probably come out in like March because I'm trying to get all of season seven done before the new year starts. And so it's just so nice to have like 10 episodes in the backlog 'cause I never had to worry about that.

But yeah it's been a very grateful last year, 2025 of the show. I have a recap episode coming out in the first week of January. Just kind of my whole journey and all my lessons learned. So yeah, I think that's pretty much it. I wanted to ask you about now, I guess more career type stuff, but going through the bootcamp, like sort of this career pivot and now being in your field for about a year or so, like mm-hmm.

Was that easy? Was it hard? Like, I'm sure there are, there are non-zero people in the audience listening and be like, wait, should I go into software development? Should I do bootcamp? So what is your, what is your, your, [00:05:00] your sample size of one, your experience that you'd like to give to the audience? Jeez.

Rani: Okay. So I, my experience has been, has been actually do it actually crazy. Yeah. Every, everyone should, should totally do it. Look I'm not going to sit here and not say that like, I am like not lucky. Like unfortunately, like the time that we're like recording this in this episode, like just how the.

Environment has been, there's been a lot of layoffs, there's been a lot of, you know, especially in the tech industry is hard. It really is. And I'm not going to, I'm not gonna sit here and say that I went to a boot camp and became the best boot camper and next thing you know, I immediately got a job because that was not the case at all.

At the same time, I will say that the one thing that I've learned, just like what I've learned with everything else that I've been doing, is that, you know, it's the times that are the hardest that define you just a [00:06:00] little bit more as a person. I like, you know, my story is not unique. I went to a bootcamp thinking that the next month I'm gonna get a job.

Well, the next month was the holidays, and then next thing you know no one is obvi, no HR person is like available. And then next thing you know, layoffs are coming. So now there's fresh new grads that are coming in. And so then what do you do? What do you, what do you like as a person? Well, like for me it's very easy.

I could be like, I got my business. I pivot towards there. Or I've had experience in my finance role. I could go back there, but I'm a stubborn person. I don't, I don't know, I don't know what else to say. And I think my stubbornness sometimes is what gets me too. The things that like, ultimately, like what I want, again, like I, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm a perfect person, that like I did everything that I could and, and somehow, like I'm the best applicant out there, however, and so there, there is luck.

However, I think that for me it was just like the continuous persistence [00:07:00] of on my end that I wanted to be able to do that got me to where I'm at now, so, 

J.R.: okay. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. So I get the mindset stuff, but what exactly happened, what did you do and what factors led to where you are right now besides luck and hard work and all this stuff?

Like what actually happened? Happened? Got it. Okay. 

Rani: So. This is, this is, yeah. I'll, I'll tell you. It was very interesting. November, I ended my bootcamp. I got this quote unquote certification that makes you think that you're like cool. November hits, and then December, there's a freeze of any hiring whatsoever.

And then it's okay because you get to spend time with family and get to relax. January hits, I'm in, I'm applying, applying, applying. And no one wants to see no one wants to see my resume. That just says fresh out of bootcamp because they've dealt with bootcampers before. You know, this is not the 2017 you know, 2016 thing where anyone who gets out of there immediately gets a job and they're okay with training.

[00:08:00] No, like people gotten more sophisticated. There's AI that came out. It's just harder competition. So, what I did was, hey I did my dailies, I did my discipline of like several algos a day. Try to create a project, talk about my project. I actually create created a website for me to just explain my, my, like how I was learning things.

And you know, sooner or later I, and I tried all different routes. This isn't one of those, like I'm gonna go to LinkedIn. I reached out to people on a call, I called the companies personally and be like, lemme talk to your HR department. I went on like Y Combinator and see if any serious funding that's about to boom is, is looking for their newest engineer, you know?

And so I did all of those things. I've gotten some initial screening and only to come to realize that I need to be better. I need to make myself stand out more. And so I grinded like the, just it's, it [00:09:00] sounds. It, it sounds like, again, like my experience is unique, but it was quite literally a rigorous grind because sometimes when you're applying for things or when you're applying for a software engineering role, there's so many avenues that, that you could go about.

And if you don't have any experience on any one of them, it's just like the whole thing about being a jack of all trades. Oh, I could do a little bit of front end. I could do a little bit of backend, like, well, what do you need? Like, you need to be a more specific thing. And so yeah it's honing in on the core tools or technology that I learned.

It's getting repetitive practice and then it's trying to showcase it in a way where someone is okay with talking to me as a new person. And then that's how I got my interviews and nailed it. Yeah. 

J.R.: Okay. So what did you do? Meaning like you're saying, okay, I was grinding, but like specifically what did you learn?

What did you do? What did you say? What jobs did you apply for? Like that? Like the tactical stuff? Yeah.

Rani: So the first things first that made me land, like helped me land the job was target [00:10:00] companies that don't do algorithms. Like that's, what do you mean by don't, what do, what do you mean by target companies that don't do algorithms? So, in software engineering companies, there's a lot of, like, sometimes you get a baseline of like how they.

They prescreen you or they get you your first interview. Some of them do two different, there's two different paths. One of them is through like, Hey, can you solve this algorithm of like, or create this algorithm that you're, that you're doing right? That's one way. And then if you do decent and if you are okay with it, they put you onto the next step, right?

And then the second part of it is, here's a take home project. Let's see how well you could do this. And so for me, my tactical thing was like, well, my algorithm is okay, but I know for a fact that I will freeze in a 20 minute, like time scramble. If they give me a project to be able to do, where I can showcase like how much effort I can put in, in an X amount of time and show like a full design essentially.

I think that I have a better [00:11:00] chance. And truthfully, that's exactly what happened. I, the three applications that I was even getting an initial interview for was, or that I initially got like an algorithm interview and like none of them passed me. Not because I eventually I knew how to do it, but at that time it was very, very difficult when like someone is like, have a time ticking in your, you know what I mean, in front of you and you're just like, oh I need to know this by heart, right?

Versus Hey, here's a project. Here is something that we're trying to build. Let's see how you build it yourself and design it. And so, in two applications that I was able to submit, like an actual project base, that's when I got forward into the next series of of questioning. So that's the that's the first part.

The second part that I actually did that I realized I actually needed to do. Was actually hire a resume builder person. Mm. And the reason behind it is very simple, like number one again, [00:12:00] being in business for an entrepreneur, it like, like, what do I say? I'm a managing partner now. I want to be an employee for like a software engineering role.

Completely. Like different mindset. Number two again, relevant experience. It's like, I, like how do I finesse saying that I've had all these finance rules and the next thing you know, I'm like becoming an engineer, right? I'm trying to eliminate all the things so that I could even decently be like a upfront person so that they could say like, Hey, I have the technical skills to be able to land this job.

And then the last thing that I definitely did that I continuously did like throughout the entire time was just like ultimately like the dis the discipline of. Like continuously following up with the person, even though they were telling me that they'll let me know later. The reason why I actually got this job was because of the fact, I'm sorry.

No, it wasn't even about persistent. It was the fact that I kept, oh, I guess it is persistence. Yeah. I kept bugging them and said like, Hey, what is, what, [00:13:00] what, what is an update? Are you gonna hire me or not? So, yeah. 

J.R.: Okay. That's interesting. I have a handful of follow up. So going back to the interview of the practical application, like the tests.

So you're saying that there is like an in-person timed. Algorithm tests. As a technical person or as a non-technical person, I don't really know what that means. Like, is that a backend, is that front end And then, but I understand that sometimes they'll give you take home projects to do, but could you like, break down for us non-technical people?

Like what do you mean by algorithm tests and then how did you pass along to the next phase after that? Great. 

Rani: Yes. So what a lot of initial screeners do is, again, there's, there's thousands of applicants. Sometimes what they do in the very beginning is that they give you this like pre-assessment.

What this pre-assessment does is they say like, cake, can you like, what an algorithm also, at least for me, my, my experience is like what an algorithm ultimately shows is that like, hey, are you able to think logically so that you could get [00:14:00] to the answer in the most logical way? Like that's how algorithms, are designed to be able to do are designed to be able to take in. And so sometimes when they're like wi within an algorithm, like I'll give you an example, they're gonna say, write a function that given this, given how many apples I want you to what do you call this? If you put it in this function, now you have like five apples, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so it's like sometimes it's like, it's like that's a very easy way of like this describing it and probably not the best way of describing it. Sure, sure. Yeah. But sometimes like you, you trip up and you're like, oh like this is not the most efficient way of doing things. Like you could say like, okay, one plus one plus one plus one equals five.

Mm-hmm. Or you could say one times five equals five, here you go like, sure, here, here's your apple. That's one way of doing it. The second half of it is this whole project oriented thing where it's designed for you to think at least in my opinion, in a very [00:15:00] bigger scope of lens, they're not telling you, Hey, like, how do, like, how do, how can you create a function?

They're gonna tell you, create me a business plan to map out like an event for a, like a user who wants to buy like a, a, a jacket all the way to the end point of actually purchasing it and, you know what I mean? And, and, and sending that over, right. Full scope, like that requires you know, like a methodical process, like from start to finish as opposed to say more like an end to end.

J.R.: Yeah. End to end. Like skillset, perspective and building that whole thing out. Right. 

Rani: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. And so. For me, the fact that maybe it's because of the fact that I have a little bit longer time with projects, it, I was able to really hone in on the skills of what makes that like better as opposed to like a very timed here's 20 minutes, figure out how to do one times five in this thing.

And if you don't, they either say yes or no. If you don't get it a hundred percent, well guess what? There's a hundred other people that got a hundred percent. So you're already in the bucket of the No. That's how come [00:16:00] I don't pass those things. Yeah. 

J.R.: Mm. Okay. I get it. So it's more of like a, if, correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like it's more of a technical focus on one sort of thing, like create a script and algorithm, a function to do this sort of thing.

And that sort of in-person test is very difficult. Obviously you're like a new software engineer, but if you're asked to do like a take home project that's more of like an end-to-end build this thing or proof of concept that was a little bit more feasible for you. Is that what you're saying? 

Rani: Absolutely.

And I think the reason why is because of the fact that bootcamps nowadays, going back to it. Bootcamps nowadays, that's what they teach you. Like majority of it is because they realize that algorithms you could learn by yourself through your own time, and then you take yourself under pressure.

But what a bootcamp really does is prepare you for the real real life application of here is a feature that's needed. How do you implement this into this small piece of like a like website? Yeah, 

J.R.: no, that makes a lot of sense. Like rather than just, here, let me teach you skills, how to be a cog if you're a little bit more valuable if you can understand the [00:17:00] overarching thing and then you can dig into the small technical things as you can.

But a bootcamp isn't going to like drill in every single technical skill into you. 'cause that wouldn't be practical anyways. But that makes sense. Okay. So then the other two parts where you're saying is you just, you outsourced the resume applying thing of like getting a resume writer or resume builder.

And then the other thing was that you just bugged them until they got back to you, which I think is interesting because you're saying yeah the technical skills, like I had enough of it, but really I just, I just did the other like brute force to get the job, which is cool. Yeah, hold on. So, so yeah.

Now, okay, so I, I don't know if you know this, but do you have an idea of like how long it took you and then how many jobs did you apply for? I want to like get some sort of hard numbers there. From your experience? 

Rani: Great. I applied, I believe closer to 60 like applications before I even got only like a handful of like interviews to which only [00:18:00] two of them got to the next step.

And then next thing you know, I got and then I landed my job. Mm. I timeframe, yes, I, I outsourced. It took me like, I would say probably four months after like post bootcamp, four or five months post my boot post med 

J.R.: bootcamp. 

Rani: Okay. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Okay, cool. And the other thing is like, were there, in your process of applying for these 60 ish jobs, were there industries, fields, companies you were aiming towards?

Were there any not deal breakers, but things you were filtering out of like, okay, I'm not looking for these jobs, I'm looking for these types of jobs or these types of companies or areas or whatever. Was there any of those considerations at all? 

Rani: Yes, but not because of a filtering, but more so process oriented.

I, the way that I broke it down actually, is because there's so, because there's so many companies sometimes that you know, or sometimes that you don't know, like, I broke it down per day, exactly what type of industry I was going to apply for and what type of small, medium or large size company I'm gonna apply for.

So there's for example, on a Monday, I [00:19:00] would only apply to like FinTech companies, right? On Tuesday I would I would aim for like series A funding companies, or I would aim for like mid-size companies. Like those are the different types of filters that I would go for because in the truth is, is that a resume is not like a catchall. Like I have to actually like, yes, there is like the overall like resume is a thing, but I have always had to cater each and every single resume every time I applied. Depending on what that need is. And it's not even about technical skills, it's exactly how you approach it.

If you are applying for a bigger company, they care about like big achievements that you've made. If you're applying for a small company, they want you to list like how many things you've done in a very short amount of time so that they could see that like, oh hey, I could grow fast with this person.

So it's like, it's that type of like technical thinking at least that I had to [00:20:00] approach it as when I was applying. 

J.R.: That makes sense. So you were, you were batching and grouping them based on like similar categories of businesses or things like that because you're tailoring your resume and it makes sense to like, alright, now it's tailored more towards FinTech or now it's tailored more towards midsize companies or whatever.

So it was more just like that sort of consideration, not necessarily like filtering out like, oh, I'm not trying to work for this or this. It was just part of your process. 

Rani: I applied, like I applied all the way to like South Carolina to, to get a job and if they wanted me to go. Oh, and so locations too, right?

Yeah, exactly. They, if they wanted me to go all the way there and be there, I would've been, I, I would've been there in a heartbeat immediately because sometimes, you know, it's true. It's like your first one is the only one that matters and then next thing you know, it it, it'll get you to where you need to go.

I was willing to make that sacrifice to be like, okay, if I'm not gonna be in California because it's tough, that's okay. Give, give me to Texas, give me to South Carolina. 

J.R.: Okay. How [00:21:00] long was your bootcamp again? Three months. Three and a half months. Okay. So three and a half months. And then the job applying situation was like four-ish months, you said?

Yes. And then how did you find your resume builder and like how much did they cost? I dunno if you wanna give any of that information away, but like, I'm curious because that seems like also a significant part of this story, right? 

Rani: Yeah. That's a great question. I, my resume built, there was actually two that I did, but the one that actually took a deep dive that I've gotten counseling for and things of that nature, it was surprisingly free for me.

The reason why is because my old company, my former company, had this program where they were actually like, they wanted you to be able to like, use this third party, like if you need a resume builder. And it just so happened that I I took that opportunity and it was still available and that's exactly what I did.

So they paired me up with like a head hunter. They showed me exactly like what things to look for. They [00:22:00] made me do this sort of like format that's like good for like hr, like department and things of that nature. Mm. And so I got all the templates that they wanted me to be able to do and, and, and go for there.

But yeah, I was very lucky in that sense that I got it. I got it for free to be working. 

J.R.: So you said your, your old company, was it an old corporate job or what do you 

Rani: It was an old corporate job. I had a, I, I had a I had an underwriting company like prior to this that I was helping with con consultation and so 

J.R.: Oh, okay.

Okay. Yeah. Mm. Okay. So you were, so they were still kind of working with them, but they were offering that or, yes. Gotcha. Gotcha. 

Rani: I, I, I left the company, but they were, they extended that thing to me because I'm very close with someone, someone there. Yep. 

J.R.: Okay. So then do you have any advice now for the general public on how to find their own resume builder services or what's applicable or what is available to them? Any thoughts? 

Rani: Yes. My actual, my, my actual advice and thoughts of it is, is that you, it's [00:23:00] better for you, in my opinion, to continuously look for different sources rather than one person, because the truth of the matter is, is that. There is again, there, like, it's, it sounds terrible to say, but there is no like one like true combination of things and sometimes what works for others doesn't like work for you.

But being able to take in a grain of salt with like a solid foundation you know what I mean? Like from one helps a lot like cater towards that because then you become like the truth is, is that your resume is a storyteller of yourself, and so they'll give you the tools and tooling of how to present, how to tell your story.

But the ultimate person who knows how to tell your story the best is you. You know what I mean? So again, it's like someone is going to tell me as an advice Hey, this is how you should structure like how you want to show your achievement. But they can't put words in into me and saying like, yeah, yeah, [00:24:00] this is exactly how I achieve.

J.R.: Okay. So I get That's good advice is always like, get multiple sources of advice in that sense. Do you have any place you would like to direct people on where to find a good resume writer? Any places you would recommend? Because again, I know you got yours for free, but you.

For the sake of like giving people, you know, like a direction, they're like, that sounds great Rani, you got a free resume writer. Where do I find mine? You know, what do you recommend? 

Rani: There is a, there is a free one. I, I will say that I think did really well for me actually. Because they give you a score afterwards. It is resume io. Resume io. It is, it is, there is some sort of algorithm like behind it. So again, that's why you don't take it like for a full grain of salt, but they give you a true breakdown of like on a percentage scorecard, like how you rank amongst like the rest of the ones that have been submitted.

So I would say that I think the sign in [00:25:00] cost, I think I paid like $20 like a month when I had it, this a subscription and I did it for one full month and then that was that I was like, okay, I got all the sources that I need and then and then go from there. So. Okay. That's what I, that's what I, 

J.R.: so that you used it, you would recommend it and it's like you used it for a month and that was like enough for you to like get you to what you did.

Rani: Exactly. Exactly. Because that gives you, again, a structure and then everyone else, a k starting point, either your friends or colleagues from, from the same industry, we'll help you out, or like actual career professionals will help you out as well. You take a little bit from each one inside. 

J.R.: Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, cool. Great advice. Okay. Let's pivot if you're okay with that. Unless you had anything else on career, but I wanted to go to travel. Is that cool? Sure. Let's do it. Okay. So yeah, so we talked about this before the recording of, so you just, you came back recently from vacation and [00:26:00] other things around Asia.

You specifically mentioned Japan, Philippines, and Thailand. And like I mentioned, I just came back from Japan for two weeks. And so you have these thoughts on now that you have this perspective of going through these different cultures, things that are same or different and you have some observations, would you like to dig into anything that comes top of mind first?

Rani: Yeah. And I think this to me I'm so glad that you've said that you. You know, visited Japan like four times. That's why I actually was very curious about your experience, because this was my very first time in Japan. Big, obviously just like anything else, it's a culture shock. Aside from the fact that like I have to calm myself and realize that not everything is anime.

Like anime there. 

J.R.: I know it definitely is. Everything is anime. Whatcha talking about? I go on the subway and I'm like, is there an anime playing? No, I'm just kidding. That's, yeah. 

Rani: No. Yeah. So I was there like, actually for a week. I was there for a wedding, but I was I only visited one place and it was [00:27:00] Osaka.

And again, with my limited experience it, it was very intriguing. I personally like to. People watch when I go to different like when I travel to new places. And so for me, I think the biggest thing that I was able to realize there sometimes is they're very at least from my experience, Japan is very process oriented.

It's like, to them, if it defies what the process is, it is like, it's almost like non no longer functioning. Like, or like, it can't happen like the process is there and I'm sure that it was So it's like rigid or continuously built there? Yes. It's so rigid that anything like like that's a tangent from it is very like, it's like very hyper aware, like, like type of thing.

And it's like almost non-functioning or like, it feels like it's, it's like no, like, it's like that can't happen. Like you broke the system. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'll give [00:28:00] a very explicit story, right? I was sitting at a diner, local diner nothing fancy. The place or the di the diner looks like what overcooked looks like, which is very like square.

In the middle of it is where the staff is at the kitchen. They're never outside. You go in, you sit down like perfectly cool meal. The register is on the left side. I sit on the right side. It's like, okay, perfectly fine. Normally what you would, or at least with my perspective of what an assumption is, where something is very customer service centric, where it's like the customer is always right, like that idea of customer is always right. Is that everything is like catered to the customer.

Over there it's. In order for me to pay for my bill, I would have to go around my seat, go across, go to the opposite side and go to where the cash register is, and then pay there, like knowing that the person is going to be there. As opposed to if this is a square circle, [00:29:00] the the service just turns around, grabs my information, pays, and then like, you know, dumps it back on my table.

And like, that was good to go. I'm not complaining. I, it's, it's a mere observation that I was just like, wow I wonder like to me it was like the biggest, like my thing about it was like, huh. Like I wonder if they think that like on a busy day, is that always going to be the process no matter what, because they think that that's the most efficient or, they never thought of just handing like the service, like to the person when you're that you're seating at. Right? Mm. Like the bill. 

J.R.: Like the check, 

Rani: yeah. The check or the bill. Like, yeah. Again, like cus like if you were to design something that's very customer centric or like the customer is always right type of thing.

It's like, oh yeah, please, here's the, here's the bill. Oh like, thank you so much. Going from there.

I'll give a different example. In the Philippines, it's the same. It's sort of the same thing when I, when I visited there, like, yes, I have the privilege that I am like Filipino American, [00:30:00] so I could talk in Filipino Tagalog, but to a tourist that would come that doesn't know Tagalog as much. My experience is that they would genuinely try like, to try to service a person that can't speak like their native language. It's very like catering towards there.

My observation during my trip in, in Japan was that I like there, there's times where like I saw a nice local food area place where I would try my hardest in terms of actually trying to speak like the language.

But it comes to a point where they're just like looking at me and they're just like this is much more of a hassle that, and I could get more customers that could easily like that I could service more rather than try to help you out. Like, it's okay.

Completely different viewpoint that I that I experienced that. I'm not here to judge whether one is better than the other, but it was just like, to me, I was just like, oh, like, that's interesting. Right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Like, that's how it is. Two questions. What was that second place like?

What type [00:31:00] of restaurant or business was that where they were like, oh, this, I'm not gonna try to help this guy out. And second did, were, were there specific words you were trying to use or phrases? I'm just curious. 

Rani: I was just, I was just trying to look for like two, like it was a, it was a, it was a pub, I will say.

Okay. It's first and foremost. It, it was a bar pub. Yeah. Like a bar, pub. Pub. Like, yeah. Okay. Bar pub. Like, it, it was like a, it was like a nightlife type of like location type of thing. Okay. Okay. It was to to be to their own. Right. And to be fair, it was like fairly like full. Right. Oh, okay. Okay. And, but for me, I.

Again like difficult time. I was try, I was trying to, I was trying to do hand gestures. I was drawing like my most, like, you know what I mean? Like, like I, you know, I'm, 

J.R.: I, I wanted you to say, oh yeah, I busted out all of my anime language. I said, sang gun, and I said to go and Ben [00:32:00] didn't give. 

Rani: Yeah. I was like that.

I was like no. I was, I, I, you know, you know, I was like, this is why you're not getting service. Freaking racist. That's why.

Damn, I, I was telling them that's my ninja way and they just didn't understand it, you know? Okay. I can see where your problem is now. I see where your problem is. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. I'll give, I'll give a last example. I'll give another final example. I went to a bar restaurant where. The seating, like the seating that they have reserved for like a long chair table is for like six people.

Right? At ma at Max thing is, is that like us if you go to a Denny's or like a, like, like a, like a diner is like pub, like you could make that six to like eight people. Like I'm [00:33:00] look like I've been working out. I'm not that like, I'm not that big. Like I could squeeze in, you know what I mean? To, to, to a seat.

And, but the thing is, is that, and like I saw that and I, I was there. I, 'cause I came in late because I was trying to look for directions. It's clearly like everything, everything was terrible. My first time there I was trying to get directions and then the table was full because they were only able to sit like six people.

And I'm like, Hey, can I sit there? And they looked at me like, no, like only six. And I'm like, no, but like I could squeeze in. And they're like. No, that's not how it works. And I'm just like, I was like, oh, like interesting. As opposed to over here is like, yeah, like join in. Like you guys are gonna feel uncomfortable.

That's fine. That's on you. But like, sure, you can squeeze in to them. They're like, this max six, that's it, it's six. You know what I mean? You could do your shadow clone jujitsu and will only take six people still. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense now 

J.R.: I [00:34:00] like, yeah, I think that based on your stories and your experience, that makes a lot of sense.

And I think, I mean, I don't even think you're wrong in that, in that, so here, let, tell me, let tell you my stories are a couple of stories that's like a similar point, right? Mm-hmm. So you've been to Kura Sushi, right? Like the revolving sushi? Yes. And so, have you, have you tried Sushiro there, like sushi ro or have heard of it?

So it's similar to kura, but it's like, there's no revolving, but it is a conveyor belt. So you like order on the screen and it shoots out to you in like a couple minutes, something, right? And so my friend was asking like, Hey, where do you, he was asking a local like, Hey, where do Japanese people eat sushi?

'cause I'm trying to try sushi, right? And he's like, oh, we all just go to Sushi Row. And he is like, okay. So he tried it. Obviously, well at one point is that food is really cheap there. So a meal that cost me like 40 bucks at Kura is only gonna cost me like 14 at Sushi Row or Kura, which is crazy. But the thing is it was completely hands off, meaning like [00:35:00] I didn't talk to a single person there.

And I will say that to my preferences, that is preferred, right? Because I went to the kiosk, put in like seated person of one. Sit at the bar, wherever's available. I turned around and then I got called immediately, even though it was like a two hour wait because they had an open bar seating. So I sat down, it gave me a ticket, told me where to sit.

I had the whole sushi thing with the whole tablet. Finished my meal in like 30, 40 minutes, whatever. And then when I checked out it shot out a ticket or no, sorry, I didn't hear. I used my existing ticket and went to like a kiosk in the corner, paid it and then just left. And so that experience was like very seamless from a mm-hmm Per, like from a process efficiency sort of thing because there's no way I could have gone in and out at such a busy location if I had to not do any of those sort of automated self-service things.

Which to me in the moment because I'm hungry and I'm trying to get my sushi at a good price, it was fantastic, right? But I can see how if I needed some help and actually I did spill something [00:36:00] and some other lady next to me had to ask for extra napkins 'cause they don't give really good napkins. So yeah, to your point, I did have that same experience, but everything else was like, okay, this makes sense to me.

But I think it makes sense when you consider, and now this is a macro observation of a culture's, what they're putting on a pedestal of like their values. And I think in Japan they're all about the efficiency and the process like we're both saying. And so they have to, I think it was a conscious decision to remove those sort of customer service points like you would get at like a local diner in like the Midwest or something where it's one person, a personable sort of experience.

Whereas if they automated all of this, they can get more people in and out, and then their workers can focus on doing the, those sort of tasks that make more sense to them so that they can do more volume and be more efficient. And if the Japanese people are used to that sort of process and not having to talk to anyone, that also gets them in and out faster.

And then they go back to their 16 hour a day job because they're really hard workers there. From what my tour director is telling me, like their working culture is insane. Like [00:37:00] there's a lot of good sides to every culture and a lot of bad sides. And she's like, for us it's like our work life balance is non-existent.

Like your vacation is maybe three days a year if anything, or something like that. And so I was like, okay, I can see they're weighing the scales. This is what they prioritize versus like this. So I echo your experience though. I will say like, you know, I think the places where I've been, everyone's pretty nice, even though I speak no Japanese and I don't try any anime either.

I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like. One, please. Arigato, like, yeah, so that's pretty much it. But yeah, 

Rani: if you're, I get that if your if your Japanese is just as good as your tagal, I got it. 

J.R.: It's literally, oh, aima ramen salmon. No, I'm just kidding. Just foods. Actually, my Japanese is pretty much the same as my Tagalog, except for I watch more anime, so I think I have slightly more vocabulary than Tagalog. So yeah 

Rani: You know what you like you actually bring up a, a very interesting point that made me sometimes think like, oh I [00:38:00] wonder then sometimes if that's why over here it's more, I would say apparent that people view like tipping culture as like a, as a big thing or like, it's almost like a necessary thing here.

Because of those things, right? Because. I sometimes, like, like, I mean, you don't tip in Japan, so it's like, what do you do? You get like, you get like that type of service, automation service, you know, they've mean like everything quick, clean, good to go, but it's very process oriented, centric. Great.

Or you get someone over here that's going, going to give you that like hands-on, like, Hey, you are my person right here, right now that I'm going to serve like, and make you like the best in your life, by the way, like we start at 20% like like tip at the end of the day as well. So. Can't, can't have both ways, I guess.

J.R.: Yeah, I know. Exactly. You know, it's funny too, like, [00:39:00] it's true, the whole not tipping culture in like, Asia or I guess Japan and everything, but if you're on a tour, your tour guys will gladly tick your tip. Like they, they know. They're like, yeah, these foreigners, these tourists, they're all about tipping.

So we're not gonna say no to money. But if you go to like a normal, like business that's just catered towards like local, yeah, they're gonna look at you weird. Apparently if you try to tip, they're gonna be like, what is this for drugs? Or are you money laundering? Like, what's going on? Our tour guide was like, yeah, try not to tip everywhere because it's weird.

But if, if I tell you like, yeah, this is a, like this, our bus driver tipped them, you know, this tour guide tipped them 'cause it makes sense. But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a weird thing. 

Rani: Next time, I should probably take your, if you have any traveling tips in Japan, please gimme your tour guide. 'cause it sounds like I need one to be able to 

J.R.: Oh my God. Yeah. 

I mean, maybe. Okay. Like I said, I think for me it's gonna like an annual thing. Just let's just plan a trip and we can go together and it'll be fun. Like, we'll see. We'll both go to sushi and not talk to each other and then see who has a better experience. [00:40:00] 

Rani: And we'll do our podcast there too. Live in Japan.

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't, I know we talked about this off camera, but I wanted to Hmm. Well, we were talking about how cultural experience and travel, how it's inherently a good thing. Maybe it'd be preaching to the choir to talk about that, how travel is good for us and don't wanna be tone deaf. And, you know, traveling is a privilege to a lot of people, right?

Like, not everyone can travel, but I think what we were talking about offline was like, the thing that I get, or the, the reason why I think travel is important is because it questions your beliefs on what is normal. And like we were saying, that normal for me here, growing up in let's say Northern California is not normal to someone.

To, stuff that I do is not normal. To, maybe someone in the East coast is maybe not normal to someone in the Philippines or Japan. And I think that's a good thing to be exposed to continuously as much as you can, different cultures so that you know that your way of doing things isn't necessarily the right way to do things.

It is a way to do things, but it's not always the right thing to do. And I think that open-mindedness is always a good thing too that will serve you. But I don't know if you had any [00:41:00] thoughts on that. 

Rani: Yeah, I think I, I'll go one step further. I think people think like, yes, it is a like luxury to be able to travel. But to go one step further, I think sometimes like traveling is a necessity for your own like mental health to actually be able to explore and just like when you're growing up younger and when you're seeing quote unquote, like more of the real world, right? Like experience, like seeing the more of the real world experience, like within your same vicinity is actually not like the real world.

There's these people that are doing things either complete opposite of what you're doing or what you believe is considered like a non like a non privilege here, or something that you find that's very. I'll give you an example. Growing up I, I was born and raised in the Philippines.

I've been surrounded by [00:42:00] like. Like, not that I go everywhere, Filipino elsewhere around it, but I'm, I'm so aside from Filipinos, like, like, like I'm, I'm surrounded, like I, I've been exposed, I would say, to like lady, boys to like, to Jollibee. Like, like to, yeah, to, to I'll, I'll give you another funny story about that.

I, at one point when I was young, I really thought that everyone was Filipino. It didn't matter what race you were, I just thought everyone was Filipino. I love that. No, and the reason why is because like Filipinos in, in, in the Philippines, dude, they come in quite literally all shades. Like, there's like dark Filipinos, and then there's like really, really white Filipinos.

So I come over here to the US and like they're talking a different, like language, like Spanish, for example. And, and I just thought it's a different dialect of Filipinos. So I just thought everyone was Filipino. Like, oh, you're just a darker Filipino. Like, nice. Like that's how I, that's how I, that's how I grew up, right?

But. Again, like over there, there's so many [00:43:00] diverse things that was happening, but in my opinion, like no one makes a, like a big deal out of it in a sense of like, it's like everyone, it's accepted easily. Like they know that like Philippines is not like, like have blinders that don't understand that lady boys exist.

Like they know they exist and they live there. A a as is, but over here, at least you know what I mean? Like with with the progression, it's like, it's sucks to realize that like people are like fighting for some like some sort of acknowledgement of these things. Because there's people that believe that oh, that that's not a norm.

And I'm like thinking to myself like, yeah, that's, that's a norm to like, to others, like to other countries like, like very normal type of thing. It's not something that like like you feel the need to have to defend like their right for, because their right is already their right as a human person, as a human being.

You know what I mean? So again, very like [00:44:00] that's why I think like going back to the entire segment, which is I do think that it is necessary for you to be able to travel and and go to different and experience different cultures because you get to learn so much and realize like sometimes your norm is really not your you know, I mean, like a norm is like norm. Based on what your circle is, doesn't mean it's norm for everybody. 

J.R.: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I agree. I like that. I would hope that, again, this isn't always a. This isn't always a for sure outcome of travel, but I would hope that the more we as people travel and experience different cultures, our capacity for empathy and understanding increases, right?

Because we know, like what we're saying, normal is not always normal. It could be very weird to other people and vice versa. And I think it kind of connects to the other thing that we were talking about, which is like something that you've been pondering recently or deeply conservatism and open-mindedness.

Yes. But I wanted to go back really quick before that is like, I love your [00:45:00] perspective, your childlike perspective of like the, oh, I thought we were all just Filipinos. That's so sweet. 'cause it's like we are human. Like we're all just different shades and we just speak different languages, but we're all human, right?

Like I love that. Yeah. That might be the click bait title for this is Rani thinks we're all Filipinos. Right. But yeah, I, I love that idea. 

Rani: I, I gen like that's exa I. I promise you there was no I did not understand the concept of like black or like, mixed of like different ethnicities Right. Or different ethnicities.

Yeah. Because you're like, there was, we're all just 

J.R.: a person, you were all just humans. Just different shades, different languages, et cetera. 

Rani: Exactly. It's like, oh, I can't understand your dialect. Like, ah, I'm screwed. You know what I mean? Like, it was like, like that, like that's what it was. But it's, it's not like I'm out here and being like, Ooh, like, I'm like, I'm just like, dude, Filipino man. Like, you're Filipino. I'm Filipino. Yeah. Like, we're cool. Like, yeah. 

J.R.: You know, it's, it's so funny because it's like if we all just approached each other, like we're all Filipinos, right? Like we're all just humans. You know, it like a funny, cute way, like that [00:46:00] would actually make the world a better place. You know, but we're always so like, yeah, no, we're putting each other in boxes. We're different, you know? So I like that.

Yeah. Okay. So yeah, now we can go into, I guess, that topic, if you wanna go into it. We'll see how far, and, you know, if we go off the rails, I don't think we will. But my question was something that you've been pondering recently or often deeply. Did you have anything you want us to jump off with?

Rani: Yes. The biggest thing that I've been like that I've been pondering recently is that as I'm getting older like am I, like as a young person, I always thought to myself, I'm the most progressive person ever. Like, yeah. Like this is the thing. Change these rules now. Kate, like, this is how it is.

Like you can't think this way. Like why? Just because you've done it, like you've done tradition for years and millions of years, like that's gonna happen. And in my head I'm just like, you know, like, nah, change that up. Like that's not, that's not right. [00:47:00] That's clearly not right. And then now I'm on this opposite, I wouldn't say opposite side, but like now I'm on this side where I'm just thinking to myself like, dude, am I like.

Am I catering towards being more conservative? Because it's just like, that's how my view is. Like now, like the question of my perspective has been is like sometimes almost like PTSD type of thing where like my reality is being checked and you know, sometimes when your reality is being checked, you have to grab onto something that you consider are factual.

Like one plus one equals two. It would blow your mind to think that one plus one is not equal to, right. So then like, but you have so many of these things layered up every single year that you get older that like, when they pull a piece of that out, you're just, it's like stumbling. You're like your baseline of what, like reality is like starts swaying and you're just like, nah, keep it there.

Keep that piece there. You know what I mean? Like, make me stable [00:48:00] again. Right. Yeah. Like that that, that's my that's, that's my, that's my perspective on that. I was like, yeah.

To give an example in this specific topic. 

J.R.: Wait, really quick before you get to that. I love that intro because I can definitely use that as a hook to click bait people.

Is Rani going, Ugh, man, I used to be so progressive, but now and then cuts to the next one.

Rani: Yeah. Oh yeah. Like, no, definitely like, 

J.R.: oh, Rani's becoming a Republican. Just 'cause he just, 'cause he makes a little bit more money now. It's like that have you seen that, that Dave Chappelle joke where he's like, yeah, the richer I get, the more conservative I become, you know, the more like Yeah.

Republican, you know what I mean? Like, that reminds me of that joke. But anyway, sorry. Continue. 

Rani: Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, I, and for me it's like. The biggest example recently that I've had, and again, it's like to each their own, I'm just going to talk about like my sample size and like my experience, right?

Which [00:49:00] is that like oftentimes like go on social media, you get targeted and there's, and maybe it's like rage bait or whatever. But like you get targeted by these things of being like, oh my God, this person like, did not even ask, like I, I go to a barbershop. Here's the most famous one. I go to a barbershop and they didn't even ask for my pronouns.

Like, ah, look as a, again I'll talk about my experience as a first generation immigrant, right? That have to learn English as a second language. I have been corrected all my life to understand that they, them. Means more than one person. 

And so if they, if you know, respectfully if getting beaten from family, if not getting an A plus, you know what I mean? Because you got a low [00:50:00] score on, on English class or your gr grammatical errors. Correct. Or your friends are like actually it's, they hung out together. You know what I mean? Like when you, when you get that, like, when you get that embedded in your head, you understand what these rules are. And so now these rules are in your head for you to follow and so that you never make that mistake again or make a fool outta yourself again.

Then you come to learn that certain things like this is now something that could be like could be used for a singular person. And so for me, I like. It's not even about the risk. It, it, it's, it's, it's mainly, it's, if I'm being honest, I think it's PTSD of like, am I wrong? To even like to say that or something like that because I've been told I've been wrong like all this time.

And now you're going to then like a refer yourself as a more than one person. [00:51:00] And then I'm like, I don't know what to do. And this also this also comes from being a Filipino background where like everything and everyone is a masculine and feminine, like, what do you call this? Like thing that it's like everyone greets themselves as monster or, you know what I mean?

Like, like, like for, for the, for the longest time. Right? So it's like, like the view of of of. Again, the experience that I have of like feeling that you might get in trouble for saying something that's like that that, that's, that, that ultimately comes out wrong, even if you don't mean to, right.

That's what I'm just thinking to myself like, huh? Like, is it better to be conservative Sometimes 

J.R.: You're like, look, if I'm just, if I'm just conservative and Republican, I can say the wrong pronoun and no one's gonna faith, they're gonna be like, oh, he's just, he's just a little racist. Whatever. He's just, he's just, he's just conservative.

Rani, all that. He's, he's, he's conservative. We can just get, let it slide. But if he's, if he says he is an [00:52:00] ally, we're gonna, we're gonna, you know, take him down to that. 

Rani: Yeah. We're, we're gonna berate you for like, you're an ally, but you don't know what, you know what I mean? That I refer to as, you know, I'm just like, I'm sorry.

J.R.: Yeah. I like that. Okay. So I guess, let me, let me jump in with like even more context, I guess for the audience. So there's a few parts of this, right? So again, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't speak Tagalog, but I know even like with Blessie and all my family, like they have problems or trouble or issues with like pronouns, right?

Like he, she, they, like, I have my mom always being like, oh, she, she, she, she, she, and it's like she's referring to a he, but it's because like they don't really use pronouns, right? And that's why places like Jollibee, it's just Maamsir because they're just trying to, you know, get it all in one and they're not trying to offend anybody.

So there's that aspect, it's like the language cultural sort of thing that's different and makes it obviously more difficult for someone like first generation. But also, like you're saying now from a grammatical, I'm trying to learn English and like what Rani is saying, my whole life growing up, I was told in order to get an A in English, I need [00:53:00] to know that they them is a plural.

Whereas now, if they them is now a, an acceptable usage of a singular pronoun like me. I am a they them then. Yeah. I totally understand what Rani's saying is like, but that's confusing to me. 'cause now one plus one is three. Like what do you, I I, I got in trouble for not knowing that. And now it's like the rules are switched.

And I guess the third thing now that I agree with is yeah, I think as we get older, we start to get more, I think everyone will have this experience if you haven't had it yet, you're not old enough. But is that we obviously get more comfortable with how we've done things right. And not to say that you shouldn't always have empathy and be open-minded, like we're just talking about travel and being open-minded.

But I do understand that my grandparents and older people, for example, are more used to and more. It's easier for them to be like, well, this is how we've always talked and done things and we're not trying to be rude or mean, but this is just the way it is. And I think that's why there is a clear sort of age distinction when it comes to, let's say, politics, conservative and progressive is, [00:54:00] conservatives tend to be older and progressives tend to be younger, is exactly a biological thing that I've heard or learned and that makes sense to me, right?

Like maybe as we get older we do get more conservative. Not because we're trying to have less empathy, but just because like our brain is now being trained to recognize patterns and go through the world with those patterns in mind, knowing that those patterns have served us for 30, 40 years. Right?

And if we try to change those patterns, our brain's gonna tell us like, oh no, that's danger. You should do what's safe and, and you, what you're familiar with. So my takeaway, and I'll ask for your thoughts after this, is like, maybe we just have more empathy even for old conservative people like Rani, you know, like if they, if if Rani uses the wrong pronouns, you know, he's just traumatized because he got beat for not getting an A in English.

And he's also a, you know, he speaks Tagalog in his head. So just cut him some slack, man. 

Rani: Here's another click bait title for you. Filipinos are the most progressive culture in, they're so. [00:55:00] Okay, here, here's my last like top off in this in this certain topic, which is, it is, it comes from intention, I think like at the end of the day.

It's like if your intention is to actually berate someone or to mispronounce them or, or things of that nature that is a clear problem. But when you're doing it because of the fact that I, I think of this in terms of like computers, I would say it's like you're, you're central processing unit, you're continuously like doing things that are repetitive, that it's stored in the back of your head.

Like so that everything is like by default, like naturally, like when you're driving a car, you are no longer thinking, oh, do I press the gas first? Or, or brake when you're, when, you know what I mean? Like you, when you've done years of driving. But when you're, when you're starting, you're just like, oh, do I step on this gas just a little bit more, and things of that nature, and you're trying to figure that out. So everything becomes like a subconscious.

Now when you're trying to take that outta your subconscious and then break [00:56:00] it where you're the brake pad, like you're, like, you're driving on the left lane now because you're in a different area like.

It takes time to like, to register and, and, and pre-register. And sometimes you might still drive in the opposite lane and you know what I mean? Like, and get a siren. But that's, that, that's really what it is. And just like you said, I think ultimately it's like when you have empathy or like when you acknowledge that this happens and it's not out of maliciousness I think that it, you know, it's okay.

Like to be, to be that way. So yeah, that was my, we're all Filipinos. At the end of the day, 

J.R.: We're all, we're all Filipinos and we're all they thems. We are. They we're they and them we're we, are they, we are them. We're they And we're them. It, yeah. Cool. All right. That is it for all the topics that I have.

I know you had a few questions, but do you have anything else you wanted to ask or topics to bring up? 

Rani: Yeah. I mean, we sort of touched onto this actually when it comes to [00:57:00] you traveling in, in Japan, but I guess my question to you, because I like, I'll, I'll tell you my stance. My stance is, is that and I'm sure you shared the same sentiment, is that traveling is actually a genuine need for like your own, like mental health and like, and like self care and you progress and you grow a lot more as a person.

My question to you now is like, what other things have you done recently that, you know, quote unquote, like do take to do, take care of yourself.

J.R.: Hmm. So just like, how do I do self care? Like, how do you take 

Rani: care of Yep. 

J.R.: Yeah I get massages and I buy Louis Vuitton purses, and you know, I treat myself out to expensive luxury goods every weekend. And sushi. And sushi. Yeah, and sushi. Especially in Japan. So I, I just fly to Japan as much as often so I can save money on food.

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm just kidding. So for the, for the audience, like this was prompted by kind of an idea that [00:58:00] I had, I think, which is like fake versus real self-care. I saw this on maybe social media or somewhere where it's like, oh, self-care, I'm getting a manicure, pedicure, or I'm getting a massage or like a luxury stuff and you know, those things.

I'm not judging anyone, right? Like, you know, you spend money on things. But I think to me, what's important is to understand the distinction between self-care and like luxury lifestyle decisions when you spend your money and your time and everything like that. If you wanna spend on luxury items and that makes you happy, that's great.

But I think self care, if you wanna identify that as like the thing that will actually rejuvenate you, help you recover and to decompress when you do have a lot of things going on. Are things that take care of your future self. And so a purse is not gonna take care of future self. It's just a, it's just an impulse buy or it's just a buy to make you feel good.

Sure. But that's not self-care to me. I define self-care as like all the health stuff, sleeping eight hours a day, working out several times per week, eating healthy, hydrating, cultivating your relationships, taking [00:59:00] care of your finances. Like I think self-care is everything that allows you to be your best self for the longest amount of time.

And I think that's thinking more long term rather than the short term. And I think I even would make the argument that buying that sort of Louis Vuitton purse is, is very short term because I don't know if that would actually serve you long term. Again, you can make the arguments for all the spending stuff, but I think that's just my main point is that I think if you're in that place where you do need to decompress and you feel like you wanna do self-care, don't be swept up in all the social media self-care, because that's not self-care.

Self-care is like the daily disciplines, the things that you do because you know that your future self will benefit from it in the long term. So, dunno if you had any thoughts on that, but 

Rani: Yeah. Would you say that social media right now is catered towards using that as a short term like self-care approach?

Like the way that it's being like a put it out there in, in front of your face, therefore, do you think that social media, do you think cleansing from social media is a good self-care or not? Do you think [01:00:00] staying away from One Thousand gurus on Instagram and and podcasts is a good, okay. 

J.R.: Well, I know you're, I know you're trying to throw a weird curve ball here, but like my stance publicly on this show has always been, I'm trying to get off social media.

Unfortunately, to build a channel, you need to throw shit online. And so that's why I'm still on Instagram and YouTube and all that stuff, but I don't wanna be. And having detoxed this entire year from like now I've deactivated my personal IG and my dance ig in the attempt and the intention to have less social media.

So yes, I'm on the less social media train. And to answer the first, first question, which is, yeah, I think social media is a part of our sort of capitalistic consumerist value society, right? And. I think it wants our attention, but it also wants us to buy shit. And in order for us to buy shit, it needs to make us feel un whole and needing something and a purchase will make us feel whole.

And so of course, ads and consumerism and capitalism [01:01:00] is always going to be catered towards making us feel like we need to spend our money in order to feel better about ourselves. So yeah. So why hundred percent? Like I think everything that you actually need to make yourself feel better is found in nature.

It's found in real community and relationships. It's found in taking care of your health. It's found in your mental health and wellbeing and not in buying stuff. I think that's the biggest, obviously you can make arguments for certain things that you buy that'll actually help out your life. But I think most things out there are not good buys, especially if you see an ad for it.

Probably not a goodbye, but have you seen an ad for going for a walk at the park? No. And so that's, that's kinda like my whole point. Does that answer your question? 

Rani: First of all, yeah, no, that does. First of all, I wasn't even trying to throw a curve ball. I didn't realize that. I know, but I, I agree with the same stance as you.

I, I, I definitely did not know that like you were record, because I feel the same way. Like I, there's been a, there was a period in time where I straight up did not look at Instagram or, or anything of that, like that nature. And I felt like, I felt even lonelier the minute I looked at my Instagram and saw [01:02:00] that someone had been the coolest new phone.

I'm just like thinking, I was like, well, now I gotta have one. Or, or nature, I feel like shit, now I need to buy an iPhone. Yeah. Like, yeah, like, oh, now everyone has the orange color. I, you know what I mean? Like, black is not cool now or whatever. So I, I, I do, I do, I do agree with that. And yeah, man, I try to stay away as, as much as possible like myself.

Second question that I actually wanted to have, and this one is very close to home for me which is. This is sort of what we talked about like before the topic, but it but I actually wanted to get deeper into this. It's the stance on specifically identifying, it's not like who, it's like, like how do you identify like friends that use it of like we were in the topic specifically of like friends of utility versus friends of virtue.

How do you spot one like how do you spot one and how do you identify it? Like immediately right away [01:03:00] and, or what are some signs that you think that it's one way, but it's actually a, a a different way in terms of in terms of how, like you identify that from like a friend's perspective.

Sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it's like, it's like a cloak in disguise and until you realize, or I guess like pattern recognition that you see that you're just like, oh like maybe I'm. He's only here or he or she's only here for the good times. You know what I mean? 

J.R.: Mm. Like, yeah, that's a good question.

And interesting. I guess my follow-up question or retort is like, are you saying that there are friends who will intentionally masquerade as one and actually be another one? Or are you saying like, it's just hard to discern clearly the role between, or the distinction between like friends of virtue or pleasure or utility?

Rani: I think that sometimes it can be convoluted. It could be it, it could be like a mixture of both, but then like you, as time goes on, it becomes like more clear. 

J.R.: So I'll, I'll answer your question, but I also. Say, another caveat is, [01:04:00] I think just based on what you said, I feel like there are friends who can do, be in multiple roles and or be like hybrids, right?

Like maybe I do have a friend of a, a virtue, but also is a friend of utility or pleasure. Because I feel like, in my opinion, I don't think it's mutually exclusive, but I do think that there are friends who will lean more heavily in one of those three categories maybe. And Is that what you're trying to ask 

Rani: Exactly, yeah. Or like be, be, be more aware of, because some you know, the truth is you don't think about these things until like later on in life. Yeah. And then you come to a realization like, oh, who are my actual five people or like 10 people in my head that I would be able to talk to and, and, and call.

And I know for a fact that you know what I mean? It's like that type of thing, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. This is a great question because I've felt a certain way about this topic for a long time, and it was only recently where I've slightly shifted my perspective. And I think you might un you'll understand and agree I guess when I get there. But, okay, so I think the [01:05:00] easiest way to identify is first, okay, so the three, I learned this in like humanities core back in freshman year, but I think the three types of friends or whatever relationships are virtue, pleasure, and utility.

And for the audience pleasure is like friends that are there, you know, good time. It's kind of self explanatory, right? Like for enjoyment, just enjoyment and in, in some sort of sense.

Utility is usefulness. And that could be like, let's say. A girlfriend who's just using you for your money or something like that. That's an extreme example, right? But if you dial it back, it's just utility meaning like, oh yeah, I have these friends because you know, they know this and it's helpful. And then, you know, I, in return, we reciprocate. So it's not any negative way, but it's like, okay, we're definitely friends of utility. And again, it's not mutual exclusive and it can be mixes.

But a friend of virtue is a thing that piqued my curiosity because that is a friend who inspires you to be a better version of yourself. And so it's a friend that is like, you know, brings out the virtue in you because you, they make you wanna be better. And [01:06:00] it's not them telling you to be better, but it's because of that. And how I identify those people are the friends who keep you accountable to be the best version of yourself.

Because, or I guess because of that, I aspire to be as much as I can, a friend of virtue. Meaning that a friend that keeps you accountable to be the best version of yourself. And the problem I run into is that not every friend of mine wants me to be their friend of virtue. And I have to understand that with the maturity is that some of them just wanna hang out with me because pleasure, because we have a good time together.

Right? Or I am useful to them in terms of I give them knowledge or vice versa. And they don't necessarily want me to make them a better person. And that's where I've fallen into the trap of thinking that I should be a friend of virtue to everyone. Um mm. Even though there's huge value out of being a friend of virtue because we, if we surround ourselves with virtue as friends, we all arising tide lifts all, all ships.

But I realized that it is also totally okay just to have a friend that of pleasure. Meaning, a friend of mine told me this too, but it's like, it's cool to have friends that we don't [01:07:00] need anything from each other. We just like to hang out because we like spending time with each other and that's it.

And that's also a very freeing friendship. And some would say that is a friendship of virtue, but we get into semantics. But I totally understand that. And also it is totally fine to have friends of utility as well because we're all helping each other out. And that is technically utility, but it is not like a negative utility.

And so that's where my thoughts have evolved over, over time is I thought it was a hierarchy of like worst, better, best, but it's actually different types. And you can still have productive, good, healthy relationships with all three types.

But now going back to your point, how do you identify those? I think it's based on actions.

I think you can have those conversations with people like, Hey, I am here to be your friend to like we, we got each other's backs. We're gonna help each other be better people. Sometimes, you know, implicitly like, we just vacation together or we just like to F around and have fun. Or play video games or Yeah, we're doing something and we help each other out.

Like I think it's, it's good to identify, I think. I think if you have this frame of this lens of these three types of friends [01:08:00] and the distinctions between them. I think now as an audience member, you can kind of now see with a better lens what type of role your friends play. And you know, you don't need to put a judgmental lens on that, I guess. But it's good to identify it and then maybe lean into it and understand the expectations on both sides.

Because if one person expects one thing different from the other person, that's where you come up with problems. But if you align on expectations in any relationship, that's where you'll get a good, cohesive friendship. 

Rani: I definitely agree, and I, I will say that similar to you, there was, there came a point, and that was a learning experience for me that sometimes just like you said, not everyone wants to get lifted. Like, I mean, like it's, it's, it's a weird thing. It's a weird thing to say and like, maybe that puts you in a very like, egoist like perspective of like I want to be that person so that we could all be like better type of thing. And yeah, sometimes it stems like from that, even if it means just like wanting like the best for the person.

But [01:09:00] it's again, it's like understanding and accepting like sometimes that this is what where their stance is on, on, on certain things and acknowledging that, like that's the type of friendship that like that, that you would have with them. Whether that's like good or bad on your eyes.

I used to think the same way. If there comes a point where. Like my friendship you don't serve me like you don't serve me. Or we don't uplift each other as as this thing. Then it, it is like useless. It's not gonna make me like, I'm not gonna be a millionaire, like by that point.

Like, newsflash still not a millionaire. And yeah. But the journey, at least like the journey of that is sometimes it like when it becomes the opposite way around also, it's kind of, it's kind of very interesting where it's like where you, when I see a person of just pleasure, like friends of like of pleasure, and then they see me then as like a friend of like utility.

And you're just like, mm, hold on, hold on a second. Mm. Like. I'm happy to be able [01:10:00] to do that, but I am not going to, you know, it's, that's what I'm saying by sometimes it's like identifying all of those things because sometimes it's true. Sometimes they're like, the unfortunate truth is like, they, like things are like sneaky.

Like sometimes people are only there for the good times and without understanding or realizing that you know, the other person is like going through the bad too.

J.R.: Yeah, I think now this is making me think of. Okay, so now we've talked about the three types of friends, I guess. But I think it's very interesting.

Another dimension of this is. Friends that you're around during the good times and friends who you can rely on for the tough times and vice versa. I guess when you play those roles. Because I feel like we want to think of it as, hmm, and there's another idea, besties, right? Best friends, but then you have friends who you never need to talk to, but then you kind of can just catch up like nothing ever happened.

And then you have more surface level friends like you just by volume, you hang out with them a lot, but they're not necessarily a best friend, nor are they a friend you [01:11:00] rely on, or like friends who, like you can just are low maintenance so you can just catch up with them 10 years later. I don't really have a cohesive thought here, but I'm just thinking of like now different types of friends and how they serve different roles.

But how sometimes maybe the human thing is we all desire a connection. I guess we can start with that.

And so. It's nice to be able to have those friends you feel like you can rely on, but sometimes it doesn't turn out that way. Sometimes people change and sometimes people are not friends of virtue and they are just friends of pleasure, like you were saying before. And then it's maybe identifying like who your quote unquote real friends are, but then how do you define friendship at that point?

Because we just define 10 different types of friends just now. Mm-hmm. Do you have any thoughts on that? I'm just kind of, yeah. I think word vomiting. 

Rani: No, I'll start, I'll, I'll start off with saying this I think that when it comes to different types of like friendships.

Like I don't think that there's any form of fake friendship from someone that comes from like a friend of pleasure. You have a good time with this person.

It doesn't mean that it's that's fake because of the fact that you feel like it's someone that you could like, look up to in terms of like [01:12:00] virtue.

It's a different form of friendship. It all comes from like how, do, how do I feel about it? Right. At the end of the day, it's like, do you give them power?

It's, it's an acknowledgement and an awareness so that like you are more aware of the people you seek at certain times when you need it.

The reason why I don't think that there's a hierarchy between a friend of virtue, a friend of utility and a friend of like pleasure is because I think that every single one of them is needed at some point.

You get to understand who you can lean on at times that you need a certain type of friendship.

J.R.: I like that. It's crazy. Okay. Well. I don't have any other thoughts. I think that was great. I think we wrapped up everything, but as you were talking. Let me just throw it out there and see if you're interested. So I was reading this book called, I Don't Wanna Talk About It by Terrance Real.

Have you ever heard of it or the author? I have not. But please share. 'cause I, 

Rani: I'd love to be able to like learn more. 

J.R.: Yeah. It's very interesting. Okay, so basically [01:13:00] he's like a mental health counselor, maybe psychotherapist or something like that. But the entire thing is focused on male-centered covert depression.

He defines it first off as overt depression is kind like what we see is the thing that you need to get medicated for. It can be like very extreme and intense. Covert depression is the subtle thing that kind of lingers in the background chronically. And usually people self-medicate or lean on addictions to kind of get them through.

But it's something that when it's unaddressed chronically, it can resurface in people's relationships, family relationships, et cetera. And now the author says that the reason why men tend to have more covert depression more often and higher rates is because of the socialization of boys to men basically. Of boy boys going in through boyhood into manhood of how our society.

Even though all people want human connection regardless. But in society, men are typically taught to get that connection, social [01:14:00] connection through our achievements and how we are valued as a person is based on those achievements. And in order to achieve those things. I'm simplifying it. So guys, check out the book or check out my book summary, which should be life by now.

But basically that, so in order to have achievements, you have to go through this sort of sport of domination and the skills needed to win and to be dominant in society are skills that typically make you to remove compassion and connection and empathy and community. Right? And I think what he's saying is.

Again, society, gender norms is that women are more accepting or encouraged to be connecting and have a community and to be vulnerable and open up. Whereas for boys or men, it is less, it's more frowned upon to do that. You we're more taught to be self-reliance and to be kind of like the head of household and to dominate and control all this other stuff.

And so, and it's perpetuated by other men to boys or men to other men, et cetera. And so what we have is an epidemic of [01:15:00] men, basically, who were socialized in order to be less communi, community oriented, empathetic, compassionate, vulnerable, opening up to people. And that's why they have higher rates of covert depressions.

'cause they're not. They've been trained to not be able to deal with this. And there's a lot of different factors, and I'm kind of simplifying the main points that I remember. And it made a lot of sense to me when, now when we're talking about friendships, because like even for me, like I'll admit that I, I, when I was reading this book and I'm listening to it, I'm like, wait, that, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. I, I fully have had this experience before because it feels like. In a generalization that my value does come from my achievements and being reliable and independent and self-sufficient. And my background and upbringing also compounds onto that sort of value system. So for me, I highly value independence and self-sufficiency.

Now, the dark side of that, which I think I'm also susceptible to, is that I have a harder time opening up to people and being vulnerable because I've been trained not to do so. Right? And that will obviously lead to more levels of kind of bottling it in and not having a support system. And so now we're bringing it back to [01:16:00] friendships.

One of the things for me this upcoming year that I want to do more now that I've read this book, is to open up more and to try to find opportunities to be vulnerable with people that I really do trust. And not just anyone, not just friends of this and that, but also, but specifically friends of virtue, but also specifically friends who I can rely on who are trustworthy.

Because for me, trust is a big thing. I think I tend to be on the more, less trusting side. And so therefore, again, the whole self-sufficiency thing. And so that's one of my goals for this upcoming year is to be as vulnerable as I can to open up to as many people who I trust as I can. Because I know I don't wanna lead myself into that sort of, that, that, that path of being covertly depressed in the long term and having that bottle up and taking it out on my family in the future. Because I know that if I go on this current route of self-sufficiency, while yes, I can be productive in my own, followed up, need to be ambitious and achieve, I know that there's the dark side to that and I, I wanna mitigate that by, you know, still cultivating those relationships and not trying to keep everything in, if that makes sense.

So [01:17:00] long-winded spiel. If you have any thoughts, please. 

Rani: Yeah, no, I think I, I like, I want to actually add onto that. And I think similar for me specifically, like that was sort of, I wouldn't say that was like my point of view, but I think that was a good somewhat summary of like my dating experience. And what I mean by that or like my lack of dating experience.

Like I I've similar to you in a sense of like relying on achievement, self-sufficiency and things of that nature. I've always told because of either the compassion that I've lacked from these things or just in general because, or sometimes maybe my innate like understanding that like I feel like I haven't achieved enough.

To me it feels much easier to like either bottle things in or like put myself in a position where I want to just be like independent. And try to reach for something. Right. And then it goes back to like, I guess it's my own thoughts, like, huh, had I put myself in a position where I either opened up more [01:18:00] or let myself like, be able to be like vulnerable, like other people who've gotten into relationships. Would I have achieved the same amount of things that I have, you know what I mean? Versus, versus if I had gone through this like independent, like way of going through things, like to just reach to the top like the highest.

So it, I think it's, yeah, it's definitely far more than just like regular friendships. I think it it has everything to do with just like in general relationships that's like build or not being built because of I guess like the thought process of like how we are expected as a society to be able to to achieve in life, right?

So, yeah, that, that was my that was my like food for thought, at least when I was thinking like when you're talking about that like. Still single guys. It's been, it's been 67 episodes. You know what I mean? So, applications are also available. The link is in the description below.

Find your boyfriend, you know, find Rani.com. [01:19:00] You know what I mean?

J.R.: Is it like one of those, like, those like friend auctions, you know, in those Facebook groups before? No, no, but this is, this is my friend auction on my podcast. 

Rani: Yes, please, please. We'll learn how to speak Japanese if needed.

J.R.: Yeah, I was, I was gonna ask, like, I, we can cut this out, but I was gonna ask like, so how's the love life?

That was on my intro topics, but I, I guess you answered that question. 

Rani: No, I mean, yeah. I think for me, I've definitely put myself in a position where I will say that I will I'm open to certain things. At the same time, it's. Like with everything else, it's just opportunity cost.

And it's like plants grow where you water them daily. And right now, the thing that I'm nourishing and trying to water daily is like me getting a job in software engineer or me, like being better so that I could like move forward. Right. So as of right now, sort of, it's a dead plant.

Like you're not even waiting to get watered. But if there, there was a person who was to give me seeds to water them, like obviously open [01:20:00] to 

J.R.: So last two questions I guess is one. So is it, is it it's currently not a priority you're saying? And if it comes your way then great? Or are there, are there things that you're doing in order to go in that direction?

Rani: First question. In the sense of whether something is a priority or not priority. If we were to just label it like that, black and white, I would say it's not a priority. In terms of, because that means that I'm actively doing something in order for that thing to happen.

But the, the thing is, is that it's just not in my general conscious of thinking about that. There's there's times where you think about it during like the holidays when everyone is like all like lovey-dovey and things of that nature. You, you're just like, oh, you know, would be nice. But I, like the only person to blame is like, essentially like myself in terms of like understanding that like, yeah, I didn't, I didn't put a priority on it.

If I put in the same effort as me getting a job in software engineer, I'm sure I'll get lucky sometime. Like someday seven in [01:21:00] seven months. Seven months. 

J.R.: Do you feel like it's going to be priority any time soon?

Rani: I do think so. I do think that I'm getting to that point where like I'm, I am going to put like an honest and and prioritize it as something that like, has learned how to juggle a lot of things. I think that this is something that like, I would want to put in like my, my, my honest effort on. 

J.R.: Mm. Sorry. Did you, did you say a time period? I'm curious. 

Rani: Time period. Well, this thing is gonna come out in March, so Yeah. You know what? Beginning of this year. And then we'll do, I'll, I'll, I'll add on the comment section whether or not I achieved that or not. 

J.R.: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. I was gonna say, 'cause I'm like, what if someone is out there like, oh, Rani's a catch, but he is not even open right now. It's not a priority. So maybe I should just wait.

So I wanna ask you, Rani. For anyone who is potentially interested in being a partner or dating you in the future, what are you red flags?

Like, okay, hey, I know I'm great, but here's like my red flags. Just so just to be [01:22:00] transparent, right? And so I can give my example if you want me to go first. 

Rani: Yeah, I'd love that. I'd love to be able to know what your red flags are.

J.R.: Yeah, so my red flag is that like in a relationship or even dating, I think it's more of when I get into a long-term serious relationship is that I have very high standards. Meaning that you know me and like I'm very hard charging, ambitious, disciplined, and I, set goals and I do them. And for me, if they're my friends or people I just met, I would never hold them to that sort of standard.

But what I, my red flag is that when I tend to have a partner, I kind of see them as my other half. And so I unfairly, unsu, subconsciously kind of put those same standards onto them. Like I expect them to also care about let's say fitness or nutrition or finance or career, or be just as ambitious and have all these goals and dreams. But because I'm aware of that, I always have to actively push back against that knowing because I know that that's not a healthy way to look at my [01:23:00] relationship or my partner. 'Cause it's very toxic to say, yeah, I love and accept you if you can perform as well as I do. Right? So no one wants to have a relationship like that.

So I understand that and I have to kind of like, okay, what's important here is that I love and accept them as they are and believe in their best self that they can achieve whatever that goal is and vice versa. That's all I want for my partner, is to also love and accept me as I am, because I'm also flawed and not perfect. And to also believe in my best self and to like champion my goals and dreams. Right? So I think that's, that's like my red flag and hopefully that makes sense. So I don't know, do you have one, Rani?

Rani: I do, aside from your red flag, because that's also my red flag as well, but you just took my answer then. No, no, no, no. But no, I, I'm saying, I'm saying So we should date then, because we both have high stakes.

Yeah, exactly. And your standards, or my standards. And my standards are You're Filipino. I'm Filipino, you know? Yeah. We're all Filipinos. Perfect.

Um, I think one, I I would say that a red flag that [01:24:00] I see myself having is because of the fact that I've been independent for most of my time, when something is difficult, something is bothering me, I tend to be independent and I would be quiet. I would not be communicating that something is wrong. I wait until I've resolved it to then communicate it. But sometimes like people want to know what you're going through, or at the very least why is it that you are like quiet.

And so for me, it's one of those things that like, sometimes I think it's easier for me to just deal with it so that when I do come to you and when I do talk, it's coming from a sense of I've already fixed it or I already know what I have done as opposed to I guess show that sign of weakness as if I need help type of thing.

Because most of the time if I am going through things, it's like [01:25:00] I already know what to do. I just need to get it done. So I know in a relationship, communication is like a big thing. It is a big deal to be able to, to your partners. So it's not out of like malicious, like intent of not wanting you to be like, part of my life.

It's mainly because that's how it's essentially been that I would rather like have dealt with it independently and then talk to you like afterwards rather than feeling like I'm sharing the burden because to me it feels bad. 

J.R.: Yeah. I feel like I've said the exact same thing verbatim multiple times to like friends as well.

Like I handle the same, I handle it the same way. And it kind of just reminded me like, yeah, we are, we are like Filipino Aries brothers, twins, because that's like, we think the same way. 

Rani: Yeah, no, exactly.

J.R.: Cool. All right. I think that is it. Did, is there any other last thoughts you had before we wind to a close?

Rani: I, [01:26:00] yeah. First of all I will say it's always a pleasure, like being here. I I love your podcast and I, I always support you. If I'm being honest, I have not thought of like our, like friendship dynamic because I think that if I was to spend time on it, I think that we are a huge sponge of all those things combined of whether it's like virtue, like pleasure and or like utility.

And I hope you feel the same way that you could come to me at like at, at any point. And yeah, super excited. I'm so glad that this is reaching its 68th and, you know, sooner enough it's going to be, its a hundred episode plus more. And can't wait for it to, to grow even more. And now I'm gonna be here on the 160.

Eighth episode coming soon. So anyways, definitely that's, that's pretty much it. Again. If you guys wanna hear more topics about this or feedback to me, because I'm obviously gonna come back again in this podcast and wreck things up, please leave a comment alike, [01:27:00] a subscription down below, along with your full name your astrology sign, your yeah. And, and, and all of those things. I take those into consideration yeah. So 

J.R.: Thank thanks, man. I, I appreciate the kind words. Thank you for being a huge supporter. You've been here since day one for a good reason, right?

Like, I, I definitely wanted a close friend of mine who I think we vibe well with as the starter of my show. So I'm happy and grateful to have you back and hopefully you had fun. I had tons of fun with this recording. And especially we can do it remotely too. So yeah, I echo all of that. Again and again, I echo the other thing too, which is like, you know, we're, I think we're good friends and I see this, I see you the same way.

It's always nice to have people like Rani in your life to keep you accountable, to help you be a better person, but also to have fun and to like learn from. So just wanna echo that back to you. So thank you so much for that. Okay. Yeah. So let's, I'll wrap it up then. So thank you for already giving our, the, the plug to the audience.

So thank you guys for being here. I really appreciate it. Be sure to [01:28:00] like, follow, come and subscribe. If you're a single and in the market for a sexy Filipino dude who gets pronouns wrong and is solely becoming conservative, definitely reach out to Rani. He's a good dude. I vouched for him. And yeah, leave us comment, leave us love in the comments.

Five stars, all that good stuff. Final reminder, my brain farting. Haven't done this in a while. Be kind to other people, especially yourself, and remember that you can always learn something from someone if we take the time to listen. So thank you guys for being here. 

Rani: Absolutely. We're all Filipino.