J.R.: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of One Thoursand Gurus with me, your host, J.R. Yonocruz. 

So today's guest is Julie Huynh, and she's back for another random show. So Julie is an OC native, though originally from Chicago. She went to school for Bio and Asian American Studies and ended up joining the workforce as a graphic web UX and product designer.

She's passionate about community building, service and in her free time, she likes to dance, bake, read, draw, paint, and side hustle.

Side hustle is at a dance. I'm just kidding.

So this was easily one of my newest, favorite episodes, but that's no surprise given that this was my longest, if not one of my longest conversations on this show at just under three hours before editing.

There is a reason why I had Julie on as my first random show guest back in season two, episode 20, and likely why i'll probably ask her to come back as much as she can.

It's funny because even after a three hour conversation, that's kind of short for us because we typically average five to six hour hangouts in the past when we'll go for [00:01:00] dinner, dessert, and chat for longer in the parking lot until midnight.

But needless to say, we cover a wide range of topics. You'll definitely enjoy this one if you like listening to two friends yap about random things.

But we not only go wide, but we also go really deep into a lot of different topics such as Julie's life updates, how to develop mastery, but at what tradeoffs.

Automation and delegation versus doing it yourself.

The role of AI in our tech workplaces and how it'll affect our future. Our backup trades and careers.

Reflecting on how we thought our thirties would turn out when we were back in our teen years.

Atypical love languages.

The parallels of buying a house versus renting, compared to owning a business, versus having a job.

Indulging versus self-care during burnout. Ikigai, and discovering your life purpose.

How and why I ended up starting a coaching business. The most effective way to find the right career.

Blogging, avoiding internet stalkers, and a bunch of anime, TV show, and k -drama recs and references along the way.

I honestly can't wait to re-listen to this episode like two or three more [00:02:00] times. Once this episode is published, and I hope you guys get some value or even just laughs out of this fun conversation.

So without further ado, please enjoy this random show episode with my good friend Julie Huynh.

Hello and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus. Julie, welcome back to the show. Insert applause you. Cool. Thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. It's always nice to chat with you. I know we, we kind of, aim for like maybe once, maybe twice a year of our long chats, but it's nice to be like, well, Julie, I gotta have you on the show again.

Julie: So here's an excuse for us to talk about random things. Thanks for having me back. Yeah, yeah. So I'll go into, well, I wanna ask your life updates and what you've been up to, because the last time, well, well, the last time we spoke, it was for your birthday in December, right? Like mid-December, something like that.

J.R.: Yeah, December. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was fun. Thanks for the invite. Blessie also came with, [00:03:00] but the recordings, you were on episode 20 of the show, which aired on February 7th of last year, and then the episode 35, which is June 2nd of last year. So I'll link it over here, so if you guys wanna check it out, highly recommend it.

Two of my favorite episodes. So yeah, just wanna ask what have you been up to since then? Okay. Well, you know, I, I traveled back to Korea, Japan shortly after that in the, in the winter. I started watching a lot of TV again in December. I was not a very good TV watcher for a while. You know, maybe once in a while if there's a really popular show I'll tune in.

Julie: But then December, I just resubscribe to Netflix and then was really diligent about just having this, I don't know if Rolodex is the right word for this, but just having, some kind of consistency there. It just sounds weird because I think it's very normal for people to watch tv. But for me, since it's not, I was quite proud of myself for committing and sticking [00:04:00] through to and using the most of my subscription, to be honest.

'Cause it was wasteful before for me. And then I also am wedding planning moving to to, to the further parts of la I mean, I'm currently living in Northern oc but now I'm like really further up in la So I'm very excited to have some new adventures and seeing what the living deeply in LA is gonna be like for me.

'cause I've been so used to Orange County for the past 20 something years that I've been here. And then this year I'm just really trying to get back into my hobbies and just, just chilling and not being so, so focused on work and the grind, stuff like that, being quote unquote productive. Trying not to be so focused on that, enjoying life.

J.R.: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's exciting. I'm excited for you. It seems like you have a [00:05:00] lot of exciting life changes and updates and stuff like that, especially getting married and moving and, and all that stuff. I wanted to ask two questions. One is on the Netflix thing, but the other one is, so what was the proposal?

Julie: Like I think maybe I missed it or something like that. I don't know if you publicized it and I'm gonna on social media a lot anyways. Yes. But like, what was that like? We, we didn't have a traditional or quote unquote staged proposal. Okay. Okay. So, so 'cause my partner and I were both quite untraditional in that way.

I mean, I still might ask just for photos or something. Right, right. But we both kind of just told each other well, I know you love me and I love you, so, we're good. Right? So, but what, what was important though was for him to ask my mom for permission though, for my hand in marriage. And so we definitely did practice and orchestrate a day to, to quote unquote propose to her.

So he practiced learning how to ask her in my [00:06:00] native language which is Vietnamese, and he's not Vietnamese. He and then we met up together at a temple. And it was actually the day before we were supposed to scatter in my dashes. My dad's ashes out at sea, so that's why we were at Temple.

So he had asked in front of my whole family. And I guess one memorable thing from that is that since there was a language misunderstanding that worked out really well is because my partner, he, you know, definitely I had had told him like, oh, remember to, to project so that my, my mom can hear you and stuff.

And so my aunt was very, she's a very excitable person, so she had told him to say she just went and like, ask it, ask it in Vietnamese, and in Vietnamese ask, it means Heidi. Right. Those are the way she just went, like, Heidi, Heidi. But then to him in his ear, he thought she was saying, Hardy, Hardy like to be hardy.

So he's like, oh yeah, like, I'll be hardy. And then and then I told him later, I'm like, she wasn't [00:07:00] telling you to be hardy. She told her, just ask the question already, you know, he's like, oh, well that really pumped me up though. She's like, hurry up. And he is like, what? Like more, yeah. Yeah. Nice. So, yeah, so I mean, it, it, that was really all that happened in terms of the proposal.

J.R.: Yeah. That's, that's so cool. And I feel like that. Totally checks out for both of you guys. You're like, look, let's just be straightforward with this. We're gonna do this thing, but let's do this sort of not ceremonial, but you know, like the special sort of thing. Was it, so, so was it a surprise or was it more like, like a surprise for my mom.

Julie: Okay. Okay. I mean, by my like aunt and relatives who were there, they, I don't think they knew he was gonna ask in Vietnamese, but they knew like he was gonna ask something. Okay. Okay. But me and him, like we, we both were there. He was, I was way more stressed than he was. You know, usually like the story goes that the guy is super stressed about it.

J.R.: Yeah. Wants to throw up. But it was me. That makes sense. 'cause it's like your family's there, right? Yeah. And he was just, he was [00:08:00] totally fine. Relaxing. Yeah. That's awesome. I was gonna say it almost feels like, it almost feels like a proposal, but to your family, right? That's exactly, yeah. Was it was, so was it a question or was it more like, Hey, I'm going, you said permission, but like No, it was definitely a question.

Yeah. Question. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Is that, so there could have been a no. Yes, exactly. Even the day before I was telling him, I was like, you know, honestly the worst that could happen is that she will say no. So Yeah. But you didn't think she actually would say no. Right. I mean, 90% of me didn't think so.

There was always a chance. I mean, it really felt like a proposal for me. Right. In like a third party point of view. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It sounds or feels like he's proposing to your family or your mom, right? Yeah. And it's like we're just waiting for her to be like, come on, say yes.

Yeah. So it's like, that's needs the bride and both of us are the grooms. Yeah. And then you're the nervous groom. Yeah. Yeah. [00:09:00] That's super cool. That's funny. I didn't think about it that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's exciting. Cool. And then, yeah, your wedding is this year, right? This end of this year. This year.

Close to Thanksgiving. That's exciting in my head. When I got like the save the date, my head went to your birthday, I was like, oh, she's gonna have it in December. But I'm like, wait, why would she have it her birthday? That would make no sense. Oh. Yeah. Well, you know, one of my ideas that I wish I could have implemented was to have a surprise wedding was to invite all my friends.

Julie: Mm. Them thinking they're showing up to a, like a party or a birthday, but it turns on, it's our wedding, you know? So, surprise. That is something I definitely wanted to do, but yeah, I felt like some, I don't know, not everyone would be comfortable. Like they might, right? Because they're like, dude, I need to get ready for this.

J.R.: Be like, well, I would've appreciated a heads up or something. You know? I've never heard of a surprise [00:10:00] wedding before for the guests. Yeah. I wouldn't even know how that would logistically you're, 'cause like logistically you're just showing up to dinner in like a dice. I'll be like, oh, it's a nice dinner dress really nice.

Right, right. Okay. So a surprise for one person, like a surprise proposal. Right. Maybe logistically a little bit easier 'cause you just had to keep it from one person, but to keep the surprise from all your guests in like a wedding amount. Right. And then like having a venue and all this other stuff.

That's very interesting. But I'm like, wow, that would be kind of funny. Kinda elopement, but in reverse, right? No, exactly. Yeah. Very non-traditional. I like that man. Now I'm like, regretful. I wish I did it. It was so fun. Wait, wait. You could theoretically do this. Maybe no one will be listening to this, but let's say you have a surprise party or a party or before your wedding, but surprise it is the wedding, so.

Oh, right. I still have time. It's not too late. You still have time. You still have time. I actually what's that? What's that phrase in magic where you mislead or [00:11:00] something? Redirect. What's that? Redirect? Yeah. Something like, yeah, like mislead mis Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like redirection. Mm-hmm.

Yes. You still have time. That would be pretty funny. But now I will know. So I'm gonna be skeptical of any sort of invites. I'm like, are you sure? Yeah, yeah. You're just gonna like, let's just dress up just in case. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm always gonna dress up when I hang out with Julie. I'm like, just everything, just full off.

You're like, we're going for hot pot. Are we really? Yeah. Are you sure? Mm. I'm gonna get my nails done just in case. Yeah.

The second thing I wanted to ask, so Netflix and you saying being good at a TV show watcher or something like that. Why, why did you want to get into watching tv? Okay. Well, it was, it all just started because building the band came out around that time. It's building the band, like making the band, but it's a Netflix show and they're just trying to get like pop singing groups together.

Julie: But I wanted to watch it specifically because of this r and b [00:12:00] group called Solidified. It's kind of like the modern day nsync. So I really wanted to, because I noticed that right now a lot of younger people, like I would say maybe in their late teens or early twenties, they've been listening to a lot of music that we grew up on, or even like pretty much just old school hip hop and r and b.

And so I could see that a lot of the music I, I don't wanna say trends, but music has been going in that direction. They really have that appreciation for it. And so that's why I saw that there's been a little bit of boy bands and girl bands probably because of K-Pop too, but it's Remi very reminiscent of like American Boy and girl bands back in the 20, the two thousands.

So I was like, wow, I really wanna see if they can make it and what kind of music they're doing. Anywho. But the point is that's why I started watching Netflix and then. I only subscribed to Netflix just to watch that show, but I was like, oh, like I still have a whole month of subscription left.

You know, I need to maximize this subscription. Like I need to [00:13:00] intentionally, like I, I was really not liking this word for a while, but truly I had to intentionally use my subscription and just instead of letting I don't know, $120 go down the drain for the year. So I was like, I have one month to use this.

What am I gonna do with it? So I really started just yeah, just not letting my $8 go to waste for that month and started watching shows that and sticking to it, committing to it was another, is another thing that I didn't really do really well when it came to watching TV or maybe, or like reading as well too.

J.R.: I kind of just watch a quarter or half and then I just drop it 'cause I get bored or something. So. Hmm. So it's, it the desire to watch was to maximize the value of like your subscription basically. It was more of, yeah and it's not really like a financial thing either, but it made me feel good psychologically that I made this decision to put $8 in for the month and [00:14:00] that I'm not just gonna let it go to waste because, and I think that's a reflection of my other choices where, you know, like maybe I'll buy a $6 Boba, but I don't finish it.

Julie: And I'm like, oh, like that was o kind of wasteful, you know, but I didn't like it, so whatever. But but in this case, I think it's just from years or months of just letting subscriptions, just meaninglessly existing and always feeling like, oh, that's always gonna be there. You know, I don't have time.

This was just like an exercise for me to feel like I made a decision and I should really try to reap all the benefits of. Financial or not, it's just, I made this choice. Let me squeeze out all the juice I can from it. Mm-hmm. Okay. I get that. And I totally agree. Like I feel like I'm the same way where if I commit to something, I put money into it, subscription based or something like that.

J.R.: I wanna get the most value out of it. And also not follow through with my commitments. I was, as you were saying, like Netflix. 'cause I, so I'm also very more lean in [00:15:00] terms of like subscription. So I, try not to sign up for anything unless I know I'm gonna actually use and get value out of it.

So obviously like Amazon Prime is one of those things. I'm like, okay, it's justified. I do make enough purchases there. I have crunchy roll because like last year I was watching a lot of anime and it kind of is worth it for me. Yeah. And if I average the amount of like episodes and series that I watched from last year until this year, I'm like, okay, it was worth it.

I kind of front loaded my year with like January through June, but then the last half I didn't, so I'm like, okay, well the value overall was okay, but like I need to be more consistent. And then YouTube premium, which is like the, you know, the light, the ad free version because I do a lot of YouTube and so I'm like, okay, it actually is worth it.

It's like 11 bucks or something like that for the light version. So I'm like, okay, as long as I'm actually using YouTube, it's worth it. Yeah. But if I don't, the quality of life went up, you know, a thousand percent. I'm like, look this was a good $11 spent yeah. Per month because Yeah. Quality of life for sure.

Without ads. So yeah. I, I definitely feel you there.

Julie: Yeah. I'll give [00:16:00] you an example too is I had to, I also had to subscribe to Peacock to watch the Super Bowl. Mm-hmm. And I think because it was my first time, it was because I was already on the roll with the whole Netflix habit thing that with Peacock.

I made myself sit through the whole Super Bowl and I was so pleasantly surprised. I was like, I've never watched it from beginning to end before, but I did it because I was it's kind of like I put myself through this process of going through this motion 'cause 'cause I think I spend so much time just mindlessly either like swiping your credit card or making decisions that you're not super conscious of.

You just have to do it because in order to get to the next point. Right. But this one, I think I was just being intentional about every decision I made. It's like, oh I need to watch this thing because I did it. I am, I'm really just gonna sit and observe this whole experience instead of just trying to get to the finish line kind of thing.

J.R.: Yeah. I guess you could tell I'm someone who has to rush through things in order to get to there. So [00:17:00] it felt different. The slow movement of mine. Yeah. So, so why did, are you a football fan or why did you wanna watch the Super Bowl? Well, it's 'cause I was a bad Bunny fan. I just, I just Oh, okay.

Needed to watch the halftime show. Couldn't you have just watched it somewhere else? Like, not subscribe to Peacock? I'm just curious. Yeah, like YouTube normally yeah. Normally I do watch it on YouTube. Yeah. But I think a part of me, yeah, they tell you the time it goes on, but I want it to be there before it started.

Julie: I just wanna be for the whole experience. It's kind of like watching you know, like a loved one's recital and you don't wanna miss the intro leading up to it in the outro after it. And I just found myself just watching the whole thing. 'cause I was like, I wanna see how this whole production plays out.

J.R.: Plays out. Yeah. 'cause normally I just go on YouTube and then just watch the Apple Halftime show. But you know, it's not the same as when you watch the thing that it's a part of. I'm sure people could feel differently because it's you know, it's a Super Bowl game. But like I said I, I just really wanted to watch Bad Bunny [00:18:00] and I had just, it's it was like a production in my head.

You can totally trim all this out. It's not relevant. No, I mean, I'm, I'm intrigued and that's why I was asking because I can under, I can understand that. Let's say the whole Super Bowl, if you were to go in person is an experience, right? Yes. Like you go to watch the whole game, the halftime show the rest of the game, and then you dip out. In lieu of that, you watch the whole entire experience virtually.

And that that's like the peacock thing, right? Yeah. Instead of just, okay, you just, you watch the YouTube version of just the performance, but you're actually kind of doing more of a full experience and you're kind of subscribing to that. I, so I get that. That makes sense. Yeah. And I'm glad I did it because I, I, I never really experienced the Super Bowl ad experience.

Julie: I mean, I've seen it through Mees or whatever, you know? Yeah. It's outta context. And then I didn't realize I don't even remember watching the coin toss, so, in a focused way before, and I was like, wow. I'm like, there's so much tradition in this. This is cool. You [00:19:00] know? So there was a lot of things that I missed that I never really realized until I watched it in sequential order, while it was happening in real time.

J.R.: Do you know how football works? Like the whole, no. Okay. So this, like, you don't ever watch football, so everything was like very new to you. Yeah. I mean, people have definitely explained to me how it, it works and I, I watched the motions constantly for years, but I just don't, it's because I never played it myself.

I don't understand it. Like I have to play it to know. I'm like, I kinesthetic learner. That's the only way. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Now I'm thinking about the last like Super Bowl that I watched. It must have been before high school or high school or before then. Yeah I'm not a football person and I could care less about watching a game.

I think I might've been at a party where they were playing the Super Bowl, but I don't count that. I'm just like, I was here for the party, not for to actually watch anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I think the last time was like probably that high school where I was like with family and they put it on and it was like a Super Bowl party.

Man, I don't even remember who [00:20:00] was playing, but I'm like, okay, this is fine. And check that box. Don't have to do that again. So, yeah, but that's cool.

Okay. I think that's all the questions I had on your intro. Anything else? Otherwise we can jump into topics. No, thank you though. Yeah, I always like getting your takes and experiences on things. It's always so interesting.

Okay, so the first one that I have that we kind of talked before the recording started, which is, and so we'll for the audience random show format is usually we'll take turns asking a question. The person who asked the question will answer first and then we'll switch off.

The second person will answer, and then the second person will ask the next question. So I'll go first. And so the first one I wanna introduce is this quote, which is, I think we've all heard of it before, but we haven't heard the full quote, or most people aren't familiar with the full quote. So it goes jack of all trades, master of none.

The second half is they'll oftentimes better than a master of one. And so I have a lot of thoughts on that. So I [00:21:00] guess I'll give my spiel first, which is, we think the first half of the quote when we hear that is basically jack of all trades, master of none. So it's discouraging you from knowing a lot of things and having a breath of wisdom on something.

But you, but it's, the critique is that you don't have a mastery of something and therefore equals bad. But the second half of the quote totally turns it on its head, which says though, oftentimes better than a master of one. So now it's actually removing, it's switching the hierarchy from, master of one thing and then jack of all trades, right?

But then it's saying, the second prior quote actually is saying no, actually being a jack of all trades is better than being a master of one sort of thing. And so I think it's interesting how, because you just cut a quote in half, you actually completely changed the meaning of it. And so it's, aside from the whole dissecting it, I think it's interesting.

And I, I think I I don't know it's if it's agree or disagree, but I think what I took away from the quote is that there is value in knowing a lot of things. And I, [00:22:00] I don't consider myself necessarily a master of certain things, but I do enjoy being able to have a breadth of wisdom in different things.

And that's why this podcast exists, like learning from different people and getting as, as deep as I can on these sort of topics. Knowing my own strengths and leaning into that, but also just continuously learning. So I do subscribe to the whole, like jack of all trades. Sure. Just be good at certain things.

And I had a, my my friend who was on the podcast recently, his episode just went live and we're talking about how he has all these hobbies and he is like, yeah, I do wanna get good at them, but I don't necessarily think, and I know I'm not gonna become a master at them, but I do enjoy them. But I do have that sort of, not competitive edge, but that desire to be better.

And I think you can have both. It's not either or. You can have a desire to get better, but not necessarily be a master at it and still have that joint fulfillment.

So, yeah, that's my thoughts. What do you think, Julie? Any anything come to mind? 

Julie: Yeah. Do you think that in order to be a master of something you have to sacrifice, give up, or forsake everything else?

Not when I say not everything else, meaning like [00:23:00] the other interests, things that you wanna pursue, you have to like to hone in on something and focus. Yeah. Correct.

J.R.: I would say. The math says yes, because, and because if we, the whole 10,000 hours thing, whether that's real or not, obviously means you have to dedicate less time to other, so it's like a zero sum game.

So I would imagine yes, but I think it's a productivity versus or effectiveness versus efficiency. I think to be efficiently good at something, you'd have to dedicate time. But effectiveness or prioritization, is it important to be good at that thing? Because we can spend all of our time getting really good at climbing the ladder, but is that ladder the right ladder to climb on?

So, I'm kind of lawyering your question, but I think it's, to me, in my head, it's more important to try to be good at the right things, even if it does split your focus of, okay, these are my top three things I wanna get good at, as opposed to getting good at one thing, but realizing that wasn't really the right thing you should have spent your time on. If that makes sense.

Julie: Yeah, yeah. [00:24:00] Well, let's just say maybe like a dedication to your sport, you know, with athletes, especially Olympic athletes or professionals, that has to be their number one and only focus sometimes. So, and, and there will be days where they don't like the sport, but they have to keep going.

And I'm sure, you know, there will be moments in life where you realize do I really wanna keep ice skating or running? And you, and stuff like that. So I guess that's probably the moments where just like you said is this the right ladder? And you probably have to go through something in life to figure out if that's the right one or not.

That's true. Those, I think those people definitely have to have that still focus. But, you know, I was thinking about like figures in history. Like DaVinci, he was always really known for being good at multiple things, like being good at math, art, art, science and math. Yeah. Dissecting bodies, you know, all these things he was able to do.

But I, I think I never read [00:25:00] into his motivations or how, I mean, was he part, was he known for being particularly good at it or he was just someone who was just varied. I wanna say from my uneducated lens, but I wanna say he was actually distinctly good at multiple things like the sciences, but also the art.

J.R.: Obviously his like paintings or sculptures or whatever. But he was also really well known for his science breakthroughs or whatever, at least from my study of Assassin's Creed and you know, going into, but no, no, but I think, I think he was, or at least even if he wasn't, he fooled me. I think he's a master of multiple things. So. 

Julie: Do you think that affinity or his ability to be do that, does he think that comes from upbringing or maybe it's genetic where you're just like, you know, we were talking about freak genetics, you know? Yeah. Like maybe he's just more predisposed being able to pick up things like that more than other people.

J.R.: Yeah. I don't doubt that that's an element to it. You can't have someone be, I feel like you can't have [00:26:00] someone that crazy good, like you've reached the peak of multiple mountains and not have some sort of genetic element. Maybe there's also a luck element, right? He's in the right place at the right time, had the right mentors.

Oh, had the right circumstances be, be born in the right time, in the right location to be at the Renaissance or whatever his time period was. Yeah. Yeah. That was exactly the time period. Mm-hmm. So, okay. I feel like it's one of those, it's like, it's, it's like, the whole, you know, what's it called? Like the Steve Jobs or like the Bill Gates, right?

Like they Sure they are genetically predisposed to what they did, but also they were at the right place at the right time. Right when the computer was like, you know, taking off or whatever. And they were the only ones who had access. And so therefore, yeah, that's what compounded over time. So I feel like it's usually both, right?

Some combination of it. But yeah, I don't know. I dunno, was that, did that answer your question or do you have any other thoughts? No, that was really interesting. I'm glad I got to pick your brain about that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think most of us are not gonna be Da Vinci [00:27:00] or those other people. So my own reflections for myself is I don't, I guess I don't personally aspire to be the peak of any mountain.

I don't think I'll be ever the best at anything. But I think the pursuit of getting good and exploring these fields that I'm interested in is more important to me. And I think naturally I'll develop a level of skill where I'll be like, happy with and content and fulfilled, but as long as I'm going up the right mountain, I don't really care how far I get.

I just know that I'm spending my time on the right hill, if that makes sense. 

Julie: Mm-hmm. What are your, how do you know, what are your cues or tells that you know you're on the right path, that this is where you should be going?

J.R.: Hmm. I feel like for me it's always the reflection of Maria Kondo, where it's like spark joy, but also energy.

If I'm getting energy from something, and maybe we talked about this, but the reason why I love doing this podcast is because I noticed that [00:28:00] no matter how much energy I have before going into recording by the end of the recording, 10 times outta 10, I'm always more energized. And that's like a big clue because other people obviously would get drained in the situation, understandably, however they're predisposed.

But for me it's okay, that's a huge green light for me. And so I try to find those things in whatever I do that I know that I'm more interested in like coaching, teaching, that, that inspires me. Dancing, not so much, but using dance as a medium to teach a lot. So I'm like, okay, so it's a teaching thing.

It's not a dancing thing. Learning, digesting my thoughts, sharing with others. So I think, yeah, for me it's the constant reflection that allows me to see where those green lights are and where my energy is coming from. But I don't know if, do you have any thoughts on that?

Julie: No, no, no. I totally, no, you're right.

I show that. I think that that's a great indicator. That's probably the only indicator you really need sometimes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It immediately made me think of when people used to ask like, well, how do you know if the person you're going on a date with is someone you should go on a [00:29:00] second, or is there one?

And oftentimes it's really as simple as quote unquote energy. They'll say well, you'll know if you keep talking like, into the night, you know? And that to me, translates to be the same. It's just the energy that keeps you going. You're never tired around that person. Right. Mm.

J.R.: I like that. And I completely agree. So now to pick at it. So there's a video that I watched that talks about like relationships and chemistry. And they say, and it's not this necessarily the case with what you're saying, like the whole talking through the night, but what it said was, sometimes we mistake that chemistry or we mistake that sort of dynamic as chemistry, when in reality that person just matches our relational pattern that we are used to. And those relational patterns aren't necessarily always healthy. They could be toxic. Like if you have a toxic sort of dyna dynamic with you and your parents, and if you find someone who has that same dynamic of toxic, then you'll feel chemistry and therefore don't always trust your [00:30:00] gut on those things.

And so I was like, oh, that makes sense. I'd never heard of this before, but that, yeah, that's, that is a red flag to be wary of.

Julie: Wow. Yeah. Where did you learn this again? YouTube relational patterns. Oh my goodness.

J.R.: Yeah. My algorithm, my YouTube algorithm. It was a, I put it in my newsletter. I'm like, I like this video. 'Cause I, it made me think a lot, and I think that makes sense because we might think it's chemistry when in reality it's just comfort with the patterns that we are used to. Oh no I believe you. I mean, yeah. I'm just, I'm regurgitating, I'm not an ex expert. I'm not a doctor. I don't play professional's.

Good. What is it? Food for thought. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, and, but the other thing too, and so the other part of that is, so let's say you talk through the night, and I, again, I agree with your sentiment. What if it's just a honeymoon phase? Oh yeah. And it's Right. I mean, of course you just meet the person you talk all night.

I've heard so many stories, myself included. But other friends, it's oh, we just talked till sunrise and like, cool story, like Yeah. It happens to [00:31:00] all of us. Yeah. But yeah. Know about them. Yeah. Add two years to it. Let's see if that honeymoon phase is like still there because that's the real test of a relationship.

You know, enjoy your honeymoon phase. It's great. But, but I guess what my thought is like, is that real chemistry or is it just hormones and your brain chemistry, actual chemistry, just going like the dopamine or whatever of like a new potential fling. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So again, I agree, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Julie: I dunno if you No, no, no. I totally agree. I don't think it's one-to-one. That one the talking tonight is the umbrella, but then it'll diverge into two paths. One, it was just honeymoon and the other one is, this was actually sustainable conversation.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Oh, sure. That's true. That's true. Especially if you go through a dry spell of wow, I really have terrible conversation with someone.

Then you see like a light at the end of the tunnel with this one person. You're like, okay, just let me have my hope because this feels good and it's better than what I've been dealing with. Yeah.

I get that. Okay, so that was another tangent, but [00:32:00] anyways, I think that's my topic. So you want to take it away? Do you have a question?

Julie: Sure. Let's let's talk about automating things and then versus doing it yourself. What's your, what's been your experience with that? Do you have a stance or a certain perspective on it? Especially in this day and age with ai that's superpower of that now as well, enabling so many people?

Mm. Okay. Well, you gonna go first because it's your question. Sure, sure, sure, sure. I think the reason I thought this question was very interesting is, well, let's say you asked me this three years ago before the emergence of the LLMs like chat, GBT, where it's just now accessible for everyone.

We only had very few things that we could set up to automate for us, like integrations online or, you know, apple or our phone. We had this thing where you could be like, oh, if you set this up, X, Y, z, your alarm will go off. Or even outsourcing, like having someone else, hiring other people to to pretty [00:33:00] much help you run your business.

These are all ways that you can automate. You don't have to do everything yourself like turn on the lights at the store or cooking this and that. That's what hiring people will help you with your team. So, you know, if you asked me before, I would just say there are trade offs. It depends with your business.

Like if you can't afford to outsource, then and also not be in the red, then it would be a great decision because I think you will be getting back your time and with that time you'll be able to focus on generating more ideas, maybe growing your business or your venture, whatever it is. Nowadays, I think I'm, I'm sure the sentiment is still the same, but I'm troubled mostly now myself just because I'm a, what is it?

I dunno how to describe UX or product designer. I'm just a designer in general. I work in tech and there's so many tools now. Everyone is using some kind of AI tool now to, to pretty much make their workflow exponentially faster. And I [00:34:00] cannot keep up. So because I am a bit of a traditionalist and I am so used to doing everything myself and only just because I've been so used to doing these certain things myself.

And so you think that because you, you learn to, for example take care of your, grass yourself for so many years, 10, 15 years, you could do it in your sleep. But then comes in a machine that can just do it in a second. But then for me, the conflict now is that I have to learn how to use the machine and I have to invest in the initial startup time.

So for me, I work, I'm trying to figure out like, how do I use these tools? It's taking so much time. Is it even going to be as dependable as me? Is it going, is it gonna do a better job than me? Of course it'll be faster, but like only I understand the nuance. So that's kind of my confusion. The conflict I'm having right now with adding more automation in my life is because I've always been comfortable with manual work.

But I [00:35:00] do, I mean, of course having your time back is great. That's the whole goal of this, is to learn these tools so that I could be more I could have time to work on things that are meaningful, quote unquote meaningful. And like I said earlier, just expanding. Other things when you know, my previous time would've been taken up doing, some people might call it like menial tasks or whatever.

So that's just my, where I'm sitting right now with it before and after and current. So how about you? What's been your experience with it?

J.R.: Yeah. No, I, I have some. Interesting experience based on what you're saying. But I had a question. So is, so you're saying that it, the hesitation comes from the reliability of it partly, but also that you're used to doing things a certain way.

Yes. So you're a, you're a trad worker then you are traditional. I was trying to hold in that joke, but no, but more than that. But you're saying that, but you also see the value in increasing your productivity and your workflow and what might and whatnot. And so [00:36:00] are you seeing that sort of benefit from it as you're going through and using AI for your career? Oh, are you seeing the benefits of it?

Julie: Yes, but I think there is there, when you see something happening that needs to take you days to do occur in 30 seconds, you're like, wow, that, like, that really feels amazing. However the trade off is there is a feeling of discomfort for me is because I don't know if I could trust the process that just happened.

Of course, you know, with you know, like developers and even just anyone who's getting things automated, you always have to go back and check to see if it got done correctly, you know? And so for me, I had that discomfort. It's, it has to do with letting go and relinquishing control to something else and just, yeah, trying.

Yeah. So I'm trying to find the comfort in this process where I can reuse my skillset in order [00:37:00] to welcome this new workflow where I don't get that much control over it like I'm used to. So, I mean, when I say it, it sounds actually pretty easy, but I don't know why it's it's might be just a psychological barrier.

Yeah. Sometimes it makes me feel like if I don't do it myself, I'm cheating. Or or I didn't earn it. Did I really do the work if I let I keep telling myself like, you know, there was a period when there were no calculators, you know, so am I cheating if I just use the calculator to do math?

So right now I think we're just in that phase where we have a new calculator and I'm just trying to get comfortable with letting someone else do long divisions.

J.R.: Yeah, no, definitely. Or like a tractor, right? Like picking everything yourself versus using a machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know at work for me, I mean, we both like work in tech and so yeah, for us, like I think I was also watching another YouTube video, but it was kind of like the future of a lot of our, like the, these industries, a [00:38:00] lot of tech companies, they make it mandatory that you have to implement some sort of AI and automation or stuff into your workflows because that's the only way that, I don't know, that's what investors want and that's what the CEOs want.

And so sure, that makes sense to improve efficiency, productivity. And so I see a lot of benefit to it, especially with our developers seeing a lot of benefit using these tools to make their work more efficient and better code quality, et cetera. But even using it myself, I feel the same sentiment where it almost feels like cheating.

You're like, oh, that was actually really fast. I. I feel hesitancy, or maybe not hesitancy, but let me, let me just ramble my thoughts. But, so I've been using like Claude for some of my side projects, right? Like helping with Claude, but also all these other automated tools or AI tools where it makes these things easier. Where I typically, before I've been doing a very tedious process. So upkeeping, my book summary blog is a very tedious manual process.

But where I come into [00:39:00] conflict is it's tedious by design. Like the reason why I'm doing it is because it's hard. Because if I write out my notes like by hand and then format it in a blog post, it's making me learn it. Because like if you study easily mm-hmm. Then you're not really studying. Correct. If studying is hard, then you're learning. And so if I just push a button and then the whole thing gets created, which I just learned how to do, I'm like, okay, you did save me two hours, but I'm cheating. 'cause now I feel like I'm not learning as good as I was.

Yes. Yeah. And so now I'm like, okay, well is it gonna make me dumber now because I can see a slippery slope of I rely on AI for everything and therefore maybe I do a lot of things, but I try to figure out which parts I can outsource. Mm-hmm. In a smart way that's like, I don't need to do this tedious thing. It doesn't actually give any value. But here it does give value.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, but I, I know that there's some things that I still want to lean into the tedious and the monotonous and the whatever, because I do wanna keep that I don't know it's like I can't outsource going to the gym and so I think I want, I [00:40:00] don't wanna outsource all the information work I'm doing to some extent, but we'll see.

Julie: No, you're right. Actually, while you were saying that, I do agree. I think certain tasks that you wanna do manually yourself, it's good to keep. Yourself like from getting rusty and I think certain things that, let's say you already mastered, you are like, well, maybe I've already squeezed enough juice out of this.

I could actually offboard this to another service or whatever. Yeah. 'cause going to the gym versus, you know, the tedious task of accumulating your recipes, I don't think unless you feel like there's a value in that, like maybe you don't need to spend all your time getting all the recipes together, have something automate that for you.

Right. That's true. That is true.

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. There are some things specifically that come to mind. For example like for me, tracking my, all of my car's like repairs and maintenance stuff. I'm like, okay, well, I kind of sort of do that in like a notes thing, but I was like, I threw it into Claude.

I'm like, create me a spreadsheet because I need to [00:41:00] automate this, just have it clear. And it did it obviously in the fraction of the time it would take me to create a spreadsheet that looks as good, and now I can automatically track those things. It's yeah, why would I, I'm not getting any value from creating a spreadsheet myself when I can have AI do it like in an instant.

So that's one where it's like a specific example where I'm like, that's worth outsourcing. Whereas something like my book summaries and like, okay, I need to have some sort of oversight because I, the whole point of me doing summaries is not to have it up. It's for me to learn and ingrain that. Same thing with editing these episodes, I could just throw it into some AI and they can just cut it up and edit it for me.

But I'm like, the fact that I have to line by line, edit the transcript and do all the manual editing makes me listen to it more and be more fine tuned with the quality of the process, even though it would save me hours to not do that. So I'm like, okay, let me be intentional as I adopt these technologies and tools. And that's, I think that's how I'm approaching it.

Julie: You're right. I think as like if this way of life sticks around for a long, long time, I [00:42:00] think that we will just get more smart with how we use it. We pick and choose essentially is how you're doing it. But I really did truly fear that I was gonna get also my brain was just gonna get worse if I continued or if I started having it write things for me.

I mean, I still have to do it for certain things for, to soundboard, but I just worry that I used to do all this myself, like going through the process of it's just the right word, blah, blah, blah. But now the thing writes better than I do, so I'm worried I'm gonna lose that skill. But you know, I've been in a lot of conversations like for example design conferences where they talk about now that we have these tools, like what do we do now?

And I think a lot of those topics, they, they start angling it towards, well, these will let you become better at being a strategist. Let those tools Sure. Do the trivial task. And then it gives you time to be a better, [00:43:00] like I already said, strategist, but be creative doing meaningful work that, that I don't know that you care about.

So I don't know. I don't know if that's sometimes just like trying to make us feel better about the situation or something. I mean, it, I agree with it, but I don't know. It sometimes it just feels like this is kind of our only option is to make the best of the situation.

J.R.: Yeah I totally agree with that. I had a thought, but I think I lost it. Oh I did watch another video, YouTube. Thank you. Have you ever heard of the infographics channel or whatever? They have all those like animated things and they talk about these topics whether in history or science or whatever. And so my algorithm has been sending me a lot of stuff on AI and like, oh, this is how it's changing the economy and blah, blah, blah.

And the workforce and how, so this idea that it brought up, and I'll link it in the show notes for you guys, but it was saying how white collar jobs and information work obviously is like the thing that's gonna be outsourced automated AI to out [00:44:00] more recently. And therefore the trend is now these technical hands-on jobs are the ones that are gonna be a premium, right?

Like people who do the actual technician, plumbing, electrician, whatever. And so if you follow this trend, it's okay, all the white collar jobs will be like out of business and unemployed, but then all the people who actually do physical stuff or maintain these data centers or whatever, they're the ones who are gonna have the most stability and high paying jobs.

Which again, it makes a lot of sense. And so now I guess the takeaway would be to like, think about that if you were to pursue a field, or I guess if you're an up and coming Gen Z or gen offer or whatever, and you're looking for a career, like trade schools maybe now are gonna be more important compared to like information work, which now an a an AI or LLM can do way better than you anyways.

Yeah. I thought that was interesting, but I dunno if you had any thoughts.

Julie: It's No, no, no. Totally. I mean, for one I really, I mean I know I'm a tech worker, but I actually love that those like trade jobs are on the up and up. I know I feel like [00:45:00] 10 years ago or more. I heard that there was like a shortage in those jobs as well, but now I think it's interesting.

Now we're in 2026 and now that's the job to be in right now. So I was like, wow. A lot has really changed. And yeah, I think even with my current industry, I lately have been thinking about I might need to start having a backup career just in case, you know? Yes. But I mean, just think about a world where we are going back to just like building our civilization and not just like in the real world, not in the digital world.

Yeah. Doing things hands on. It's kind of cool. I just wonder like how that's gonna shape us as humans in terms of how we treat each other and how we think because earlier my rant about being a better strategist, I mean, I'm hoping that even if we dumb down in terms of writing emails or whatever, we get smarter in a lot of [00:46:00] other ways and, and more innovative in, in other ways.

Doesn't mean we do that now with horses to cars to whatever else. So, but yes, but I think you had a comment just now.

J.R.: Yeah, no, I was gonna ask what would be your backup career? I'm curious if you had thought about this.

Julie: Okay. Well, I think there's like the baking industry, there's a lot, it's very saturated, but yeah, I mean, you can't automate baking.

What do you what I mean, other than factories, you know, but No, no, no, no. You're right. Yeah, you're right. People. I mean, I think, I don't know if okay, now I don't think this is related, but I was gonna say maybe it is related. I was gonna say that I noticed with millennials, we, I heard that our generation.

Was more gravitating gravitated towards businesses, small businesses or just pretty much anti-corporate, you know, like things that were a little bit more bespoke. And so, with things like baking, for example I feel like people really do appreciate things that are handmade for [00:47:00] like fresh like from your, your neighbor's kitchen mom type of, instead of just getting it from like Walmart or whatever it is.

So, I mean, I don't think it will, I don't know. It depends. Some cakes are really expensive now, like $200 for like a small two layer, six inch because of all the designs. Those, they're really expensive. So people still afford them. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like more of a handcrafted artisan type.

Yes, yes. Product. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. That's, that counts as a craft. It's a trade for sure. What else can I do? Actually, you know, this is something I've been thinking about lately just in terms of purpose in the, in current events is what skills do I have in this day and age now that I can contribute to society?

You know? Like I can just can't, I can't just create websites and like save the world with it. I just can't anymore. So I'm just wondering, yeah what skillset can I use now [00:48:00] in order to make a contribution? Yeah. And baking is one of them people. It makes some people happy despite, I know. And not people don't really eat cakes as much.

It's, I think a lot of it is for aesthetics, but I've noticed that, you know, when I go to parties, a lot of people decline. They're like, oh, I think we'll just share. Or, I am okay. You know, it's for health reasons, understandably so. What about like a, what about like a healthy cake or something? Oh yeah. Like a, like a zucchini thing?

Yeah. Or like a, I don't know, a protein, veggie cake. I don't know. I'm just throwing something out there. I think that you just came up with a really good business idea just now there. Yeah. Does that, I don't think there's a huge market for heart vintage cakes with zucchini innards.

J.R.: Yeah, because okay, so for me, yeah, if I would be the same, like, okay, I definitely wanna put some of this cake in my mouth, but I don't wanna put too much cake in my mouth because I will feel terrible.

And also my diet and also too [00:49:00] much sugar to my brain. Not not self-care. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I still want to have that experience and I know it'll taste good, but so I indulge on ice cream way too much. And then I, I bought this protein ice cream from Ralph's, which is a good in-between because it's like lower sugar, lower carbs, higher protein.

I'm like, okay, well this is an in between. So it, it does, it's technically cheaper than going to my local ice cream place that I frequent a lot, but it's also slightly healthier, so less guilt. And I'm getting some sort of protein, and so I'm thinking maybe not a veggie cake, but I don't know, like a, like an in between lower sugar, lower carb.

Yeah. Like more protein added into people have like protein, ice creams and protein, like these sort of protein variations of desserts. So Halo, how have you had Halo top it knocked? Unless you love Halo Top, then I'm sorry. No, I, I don't, I don't, I mean, it's fine. I've had it before. It's okay. But, and it, the whole thing on Halo top is it's supposedly like lower calories because they use like, I don't know, coconut milk or something.

So [00:50:00] I'm like, that's cool. But then when I saw the protein ice cream, I was like, okay, well this isn't just lower calories. This is actually higher protein, which is what it taste good. Yeah. And it tastes good. Like I can't taste the difference between this and another pint right next to it. Oh, that's perfect.

Yeah, so I would recommend that maybe I'll link it in the bio or maybe not. I'll just gate keep it, I'll gate keep it for myself. But it's in Ralph's, you can find it. It says protein ice cream. Oh. But yeah, so I don't know.

Julie: Do you have a backup craft that you would fall back on if the internet and satellites shut down?

J.R.: So, kind of related, but I post it on like my Instagram story. Like I'm very, very interested in learning outdoor survival skills because I was watch, I was watching an anime with my crunchy roll subscription called Dr. Stone. Have you heard of it?

 No. No I haven't. Okay. Yeah. So, and so the reason why I wanna take this outdoor survival like weekend class thing is because the premise of this anime is that the whole world turns to stone. And then fast forward like 4,000 years later, people start to [00:51:00] wake up from the stone.

And now obviously the earth looks different. There's no building civilization and people have to rebuild civilization. The main character is a super nerdy genius science prodigy, high school kid. And so he starts to collect this band of people to figure out what happened and how to restore people, and then how to rebuild society from his knowledge of science that he learned.

So he knows how to do pretty much everything, but he also experiments. Anyways, the takeaway I got was like, you know, it would be interesting and useful to learn like actual survival, outdoor skills because if there was a sort of like apocalyptic internet shutdown, it's good to know like these basic things that we take for granted. Like starting a fire or hunting or Shel basic shelter or first aid.

And I'm like, there's a no loss situation in me looking for one of these courses 'cause I learn something new. I'm interested in it and it's useful. So I guess on that topic, I kind of do want to learn like these sort of things. And I was never in Boy Scout, so I missed that boat. Yeah. So, but otherwise in skills I don't, I don't [00:52:00] know.

My good humor I That's true. That's true. That's true. Yeah. That'll raise people's is it cortisol? No, that's stress. Serotonin level. Serotonin, yeah. Just good vibes. Yeah, I don't know. I think I would just lean into all the things that I enjoy and then maybe I'll develop a little skill at it that'll people wanna pay me for.

That's kind of how I approach it.

Julie: Yeah, that's true. I've, I mean, someone urged me to do the same. Mm. Is that what you're trying to get, like get into back into your hobbies and stuff? I mean, I wanted to get back into my hobbies just to slow down and also kind of find my childhood identity or something.

'cause you know, like working all the time and then going to sleep, waking up, doing again, like I think I was just not really sure what interested me anymore in life. So going back to my hobbies was pretty much going back to, [00:53:00] what is that phrase? Like square what? Basic six square one? Yeah, I guess so.

Or your roots. Yeah, your roots. I guess that's the saying. So any who. But I just get a little overwhelmed now that the world is so much closer and bigger because of social media. It just doesn't feel like special, you know, what I'm doing. 'cause I'm always just inundated by like, oh, like should I do this?

That, like, there's so many different things to be doing. I just can't stay focused on, on, on just one thing or getting good at that one thing because there's so many things to inspire you with. So, and like I said, it doesn't feel special because there's a million other special things already floating around on Pinterest and social media.

So someone just told me like, well. Why don't you just like, essentially boils down to finding what only you specifically can do because you have that taste. I think you were the one that told me [00:54:00] a long time ago about taste, like only you have that eye because you, you hold that, you behold that.

So no one can really take that away from you. So they told me too well with all of the hobbies that you do have, maybe trying to find a way to either combine them or just remix it in a way that just reframe it remix it in a way that that other people wouldn't be able to anyway. So instead of trying to replicate, I think it's because I was feeling frustrated.

'cause I felt like I was just copying things and, and not having original thought and I didn't know how to just create something from nothing.

J.R.: Mm. I totally get that. Does that kind of relate to, you mentioned in like the show topics in the form, like finding meaning and purpose in present day.

Is that similar?

Julie: Mm, no. Or is that different topic? I, I think they're different. I think they're different. I think the finding meaning is more related to our outdoor survival conversation. Was just there. Yeah. I mean, 'cause [00:55:00] I guess sometimes I, I've, we talked about in our last show about service and community, and for me, that's something I'm very passionate about because I feel like there I can help out, I can give back.

I feel useful. Like empowering other people, just helping people get to where they need to go. To me, I don't know, something about that just makes me feel like I'm fulfilling my purpose, you know? And so nowadays I feel helpless just because there's so much going on and I'm just this. Small person in this zip code and I'm doing very regular things.

People are dying, you know? And I guess I just feel like like where are we as a collective society of people going and what do I do as this atom in it? They're like, do I live selfishly and just try to, you know, protect my peace and survive my, the rest of my days? Or, you know, do I like you know, I told you community is [00:56:00] important to me.

So I think that's why if I, if it wasn't, I probably could just, you know, exist for me. But I think, 'cause I'm seeking connection in community, trying to help build, trying to be part of it in some small way. I think that's probably why I'm thinking about purpose in that respect.

J.R.: Mm. Okay. Wow. Very, very philosophical, deep existential questions.

We can table it. We can talk table. No, no. I mean we, that's what this show is about. I love digging into those things. I'm just more calling it out. I'm like, wow, that's a, I think everyone struggles with that, but Yeah, totally. I totally agree with that. Let's see the, I know you had a few other things.

I don't know if we wanted to talk about the these or we can go into other topics that we were discussing too, These other topics, the ones that I listed out, but yeah, some of the other ones. Let's do that.

Yeah. Some of the ones, yeah, some of the ones that you mentioned that I wanna run through and see if it calls out to us is you said the strangeness of being in your mid thirties and it's not what you expected it or what it looked like before. And then also reflecting [00:57:00] on life 20 years ago. Either those.

Julie: Those are related. I'd say. Yeah, they're kind of related just 'cause, mid thirties, I think back then 20 years ago. How old was that? Like maybe 15 or something? 15, yeah. Or even younger high school between ages of nine and 15. You, well, I would say commonly you would think like you had a house by your late twenties.

You were married by 25, you know? But then fast forward, like I, I, I can't say that was the majority of people getting married and have a house and kids by 30. Right now, like in mid thirties, like I said, I'm watching Netflix and reading books about witches and only just starting to get married soon.

No kids. And I feel like my priorities are not what is expected or what would've been for people in their thirties, many, many decades ago. It's just very back then. Yeah. So, I'm more of, so just marveling at the, the, the [00:58:00] difference. And also I don't know if you've heard of that sentiment of feeling like a teenager right now in your twenties and thirties.

I, I think I see that a lot on social media, people who are in this age group, but then they just feel like they're just still a teen. They're not progressing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like they're still in that same teenage era. Yeah. Or I don't know if they're saying it because they feel like they're not progressing or because they're just still like a child at heart.

I think it's both. It could be both. It could be not a combination of both. It could be two populations, but I think I'm more talking more about the people who still feel like they wanna keep that childhood alive and just continue having fun. I don't know. I feel like there's a lot to it. I think.

The financial economy, not being able to have a house and not being able to achieve those traditional things has played a part into the delay as well. So, I think there's a lot [00:59:00] to it. I can't explain it all. I don't know it.

J.R.: Yeah, I was gonna say that too, but it seems like there is this aspect of the economy because I don't doubt that a lot of us millennials or our age group would want to have families and get married and have a house and all that stuff, but there's the real economic shift of how it was so affordable to do all those things 20, 30, 40 years ago and get a college degree and then have a mm-hmm.

Have a, have a job that pays for the house within a couple years. There was that, but now it's like, that's not feasible. And so therefore we have adapted to this new sort of, like you said, this marvel of a change of what we expected and to now like, well, most people can't afford and or the economy doesn't allow for it to, and the situation of like how our society runs, it's just not condu conducive to that sort of lifestyle anymore, or progression, I guess.

Yeah, that's, that's my thoughts, but I think to the same point I think on the whole childhood at heart, maybe we just lean into that now because there's nothing else to do, [01:00:00] but to become a child and be happy because we can't get married or have kids or have a house because there's all this other stuff.

That's true. I've heard that too. That's so maybe it is related. Yeah. 'cause I did see another YouTube video that was saying how it's had the same sentiment, but it was leaning towards the whole like, if they don't have any choice because of this economic situations, and so therefore they're, this generation feels stuck because they can't progress into what they expected they would be progressing into, into their twenties and thirties.

Okay. I agree. No, I understand Now when you talk about the progress. Yeah, no, that's, that's totally on point, right. So maybe it's all obviously connected. Nothing is in a silo. Maybe it's all just like, so now since we're St stuck, we might as well just enjoy and be kids at heart. And it feels like we're not really adults yet because we don't have all those check boxes done. So I feel that.

Julie: Yeah. You know, but meanwhile there's still but let's say separate from that, I see a lot of stories out there of even like millennial parents who are really funny and fun parents and people say it's a common thing people say oh, like [01:01:00] millennial parents are just like crazy on a whole nother level.

Were really different from our previous generation. So I think, you know, that in itself maybe just says a lot about whatever we went through, maybe our sense of humor is just different or something. Yeah. Yeah. They're def definitely, I don't doubt that it's like defining characteristics of our generation was because of the eras that we grew up in.

I don't doubt that unserious, that's what they're saying. That's, that's the common thing. Like, oh, they're so unserious. Yeah. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we'll see. I always wonder that too, like, oh, what type of parent I'll, I mean, I feel like I have an idea of what type of parent I'll be, but it, I, I don't doubt that I'll also be unserious at times.

Yeah. Like very less so than my parents, I guess. 'cause they had shit to do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Anything else on that? Otherwise we can go back to the other topics. Our other list. Yeah. We had, we had a lot of other topics. Let's, let's, let's, yeah. Did you wanna ask one? I know I asked you a question, or do you want me to pick another one?

Oh, yes. How about the, [01:02:00] the love language one? Yes. Cool. Do you want me to ask it or did you have a, did you have a jumping off point? Mm, you ask it. Okay. So my original question was, what is a big love language you have that's not a typical love language? AKA one of the one that's not part of the five.

And this came from Yeah. And this came from a friend of mine who this was years ago where I asked like, oh, what's your love language? Right. Just a general question. And she was like, oh, it's the little things. And in my brain I was like that's, that's a dumb answer. It's not even a love language.

That's just a thi And it, not, not saying that it was wrong, but they didn't answer my question because there's only five answers and you gave six. So I was reflecting on that and I was like, okay, I get the sentiment. There are things outside of this framework that matter to people, which for her was the little things.

And so this spurred this thought of this idea of what is the love language that you have that's not a typical love language. And I guess I would like to hear your [01:03:00] answer. I'll go first and say that I think for my, for me, I think it's like consistency or integrity sounds like a cop out answer, but I'm always harking on that.

The most important thing for me in all of my relationships, like friendships, et cetera, is integrity. And how I define that as being true to you are inconsistent as opposed to people who always try to, I don't know, they change based on the situation, or they're just duplicitous or they're not, they don't have integrity because they say one thing and they do another thing.

And that can mean a whole host of things. But what I appreciate and what I feel like fills up my love tank is when someone is consistent and they say they do what they say they're gonna do. And for me, I'm like, oh, I will feel completely loved when someone follows through on stuff like that. So I guess for me, if it's not within those five love languages, that would be mine.

Julie: Hmm. Oh, that's cool. What, what made you. Think of that out of everything else.

J.R.: Yeah. Well, I think, I think it's [01:04:00] years of reflection on what I hate in people and in what I love in people. And I love integrity and consistency and them just being honest and straightforward. And what I hate about people is that they're, so, they trade in integrity to make to, for people pleasing, but also to appear better than they are, if that makes sense.

Like, for example, I don't think anyone, well, these are broad statements, so take it with a grain of salt. I don't pe I don't think people necessarily lie just to lie. I think they lie for an outcome. Right. And so, for example, if I were to lie to you about showing up on time and I don't actually show up on time and then I make up an excuse, I think that's because I'm trying to preserve the relationship in some way.

Mm. And, and like kind of, you know, manipulate the situation or whatever, because I'm trying to still look good or preserve our friendship, right? Yeah. But if I had integrity, I'd be like, I'd own up to it or whatever. And so I think people will maliciously have lack integrity, or sorry, they'll lack integrity, but not out of malice because they think that's what they should do.

And they wanna still look [01:05:00] good. Mm-hmm. But in reality, how I see it is that you're actually looking worse by lying instead of owning up to it and being a person of your word. And I think I've, as I reflected over the years, that's what I love about people or the people I love and respect and admire the most, are people who actually care about their word.

And I, I. In recent years, it's completely flipped that if you are a person who lies and doesn't have integrity or just is loose with their words, your value, not your value, but like your ranking in my brain drops so significantly, like, I'm willing to cut you out of my life. If you're just that type of person who's just flaky. If you're, if you're like a nice person, but you're so flaky and you, you're bad at communication, I have no problem dropping you and be like, I hope you have a great life.

I know you're a good person, but I never wanna talk to you again because you cause so much more frustration and friction in my life by not having integrity that I don't even want you in my life. But you know, best of luck, right? So it's an extreme viewpoint, and I totally understand that, but that's how I realized that this is what's important to me.[01:06:00] 

Julie: Oh my gosh, I should have honed in on pet peeves and then figured out the anti of that. Mm. Most of the time, I can't remember the pet peeves until it happens. I was like, oh, that's a, oh, really? I never, I was about to ask like, what are your I talking about pet peeves? Yeah, we haven't, but now I need to start cataloging it for the next episode.

Yeah, just write it down. And whenever I have these weird thoughts, I'm like, okay, let me, random show topic. Let me just note this down real quick, man. You know, I don't have anything super good, but as you were talking, you know, few things drifted in. One thing I super appreciate that moves me is when people mean what they say.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but, you know, I, can you give an example? Like I'll, I'll do like a really general base of when people say yeah, we should hang out sometime, or, I miss you. Or let me know, I'm here for you. I got you. Like, you know, those are things people can just say, but when someone actually follows through on it, I'm like, oh, that's so [01:07:00] nice.

So I don't know if it's means like everyone's expectations has just been lowered as a result and that's why it's amazing. But, I still think it means a lot when when people, I think it's, I think it's just a day and age where things are just moving too fast and then when someone really does take a pause and they go like, how are you today?

I genuinely wanna know because we do say, how are you? As just like a, like a grading question. Yeah. So, so I think that that one is a love language for me. I think I always get pleasantly surprised when someone genuinely wants to know how I'm doing or genuinely wants to make time. Ooh. I love when people don't say anything at all and they just perform the action.

Like, what's it like wordlessly just helping others out without having to say a single word. Just showing up and letting your walk, do the talking instead. I think that's so, mm-hmm. Do you have [01:08:00] an example? I get what you're saying, but do you have an example? Well, it's not a one-to-one example, but I, I, the only one I could think of is one time back in a long time ago when my dad and I were at a supermarket and there was this, and we were, you know, just mining our business, walking or getting our carts.

Actually, we were getting our shopping cart and this woman was trying to get her own cart, but she was struggling. And then my dad just wordlessly just yanked it out for her and then he. You know, went on with his business without saying anything. She looked so shocked, like, you know, he wasn't even waiting around for a thank you.

He was just like, casually here, go like, yanked it and then walked off like a boss. And I was like, wow. So cool. Not even needing like, acknowledgement or, or what's, yeah, like someone to say thank you you just help them because you saw someone in need and you don't need the validation and stuff.

I mean, that's how I interpreted it, but I just thought it was really cool. Right. For him to just to help someone out and not [01:09:00] expect anything in return. Yeah. Yeah. And also because I like when people just help out random people and not going out of their way, but but you know, like you, you're not turning the other cheek or eye or whatever.

Yeah. Mm. But he could, yeah, I like that a lot. Deal with it on her own.

J.R.: Yeah, of course. It's funny, as you said that is I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm decent at, at seeing those situations and being able to help where I can, because I'm not trying to do my own horn and be like, oh yeah, I'm so cool.

Right. Because, but I've, I've had situations like that where I'm in a grocery store. I specifically, one time I was in Costco and this, this older lady was trying to lift some heavy, like, you know, thing of like water. And she was like, really struggling and I just went up to her and I just put it in. And then she's like, and I just kind of walked away after like, just, just, just to do that thing, right?

And then she's like, well, thank you. And so, yeah. I'm not trying to be like, oh, I have a story for Julia now I'm gonna look cool. Yeah. You know what I mean? [01:10:00] Like, but as you're saying that, I'm like, because I am like, okay, if I see those situations, I'm so happy to do that. I'll connect it to a bigger idea later.

But then another one is again, I'm not saying this just to like, I'm cool or anything. Yeah. But like, so I, what I'll do is I'll buy a bunch of like $5 gift cards for Del Taco or McDonald's. And if I see, you know, those homeless people, like on the streets, then I just hand it out and I'll write on the whatever, like $5 have a good day, God loves you, whatever.

Like, something like that. Right. And just, and like obviously that's not a situation where I'm trying to get praise, but it's like, no, no, no. It's like an I know this is something that I wanna do, I enjoy doing. Yeah. And it's like I'm budgeting for it and I know I wanna do it, so I do it. And so I have, I always have those don't break into my car, but I do always have gift cards in my car, my glove box, so that I can hand those out when it, the time arises so much.

And it's not like I'm not trying to wait to see anyone sees me, but I'm like, okay, I wanna be ready for when I can jump in. Another example, I was like at a, another grocery store two weeks ago, and there was [01:11:00] this like guy in a wheelchair and he looks, I, maybe he looks a little homeless. I don't know, it doesn't really matter.

But he was trying to reach something from a top shelf, and I like, kind of noticed that he was going up and down the aisle and then he started reaching for it, but he couldn't reach it. And then I just got him like, oh, which one do you need? And I just grabbed it and like, you know, walked away because like, I really am not trying to, oh hell, you're welcome.

You know, like, because that's how I interpret it. And so anyways,At bible study we talked about this of of how do I phrase this? Or how do I jump off of this? It's like. I feel like, personally, as I reflect, it's easier for me to give and to be generous with my time, money, energy, when it is for someone who I know is definitely less fortunate than me, and I know I have the ability to help.

And for me, I'm happy to do it. I love doing it and I'm intentional about doing that, budgeting for it, et cetera.

But what's harder for me is to be generous to people who I feel like are not less fortunate than me. Like, let's say the same situation, right? Right. Maybe they just need some emotional help or maybe they're whatever, and I could be that person, but part of me, [01:12:00] maybe it's because I've been burned in the past, but it's I feel like I don't wanna get taken advantage of by someone who doesn't necessarily need me.

And so I'm more hesitant to be that helpful person to someone who I feel like doesn't need my help. And so now I'm like, so for me, it's very easy to help someone who I know is in need, but it's very hard or more challenging for me to help someone who I, I have to now make a judgment call of do they really need me?

Am I really gonna be helpful, or are they gonna take advantage of me? And I'm now, I'm gonna get the cycle of now I have to keep giving. And now they're gonna keep taking, but they don't actually need it. So that's just a weird thing I've been thinking about recently.

Julie: Understandable. For sure. That makes sense.

J.R.: Yeah. Sorry, went on a tangent. What were we talking about? Love language. Love languages. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was there anything else on love languages?

Julie: I really liked how you framed your question. Yeah. I wouldn't have thought of that for sure.

J.R.: Big things. Hmm. Okay. Is it, do you want me to ask or do you have one?

Julie: Ooh. What do you think is the most important parts in a car?

Ah, rank 'em. Rank 'em. What, what, what would, [01:13:00] if you, so you want me to go, you want me to answer this first? To pick and choose what you would retain? Yeah. What is an order of, well, okay. I guess you could think at it two different ways. In order of importance, in terms of function or in terms of what is important to you.

J.R.: That's a good distinction. I, my brain is telling me the brakes are the most important because Yeah. More than the engine. If, if so, sure. Yeah. Engine makes the car do its function, but I think that's half the function because if you have one side of the coin without the other, it's gonna be a short car ride or whatever.

Right. So I imagine that the brakes are more important than the engine. If you were just have to rank, this is obviously a silly question, guys, so you can, you, you can, you can stop a car with your feet. No, that's true. But if it's powered by an engine, could you, you gonna flintstone that? Alright. That was dumb for me.

Okay. Okay. Because I, I'm think, I'm thinking of self preservation. I feel like the most important thing if I'm in the car [01:14:00] is the brakes. And then second to that I would say the ac because I need my comfort. And then third would be the engine because I'm like, okay, we should go somewhere now at this point. Now that we're in this car and I know I'm safe and I'm ac of the ac fourth, fourth would probably be the Bluetooth.

Oh, and then fifth, I guess the wheel. Yeah. Well, you know, when I finally got a car with Bluetooth, I was like, I'm the future. And it was already like in the future. And this was like 2019 when I got my car with Bluetooth, so That's funny. And then, yeah, I guess wheels, wheels are important too, but I don't know.

Wheels always annoy me because I've been having car problems with like wheels, like wheel stuff. Like it's always like a flat tire or something, and I'm like, wheels Y'all are. Annoying.

Julie: Yeah. And they're quite expensive too.

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. That's like the thing that I've had to replace the most as I was looking through my spreadsheet generated by ai, that that's what I spend the most on is [01:15:00] wheels.

And so that's why this question puts it down.

Julie: What about the body of the car? Where does that go in your ranking?

J.R.: After the other ones? Sure. Body's important, I guess. After one. Yeah. Why not? What about, what about you? That, that's, that's com that's mostly Oh, remote unlock. That would be probably before the body of the car.

Oh, remote unlock as opposed to putting the key in and turning it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Meaning I can unlock the car from far away without, yeah.

Julie: Shoot. Okay. You know, my car now, I, I, I have a new car that I've been driving for the last year or so, and it has this function where I don't have to take the keys out, I just go up to the handle.

I touch it and it unlocks. And I don't know, I guess I can't live it any other way now. So like, I don't even use the unlock or lock button to lock my car. Yeah. I'll just go up the car, touch it, you know, [01:16:00] caress it a little and it's unlock. That's the only way I unlocked my car. Mm-hmm. Nothing. I I could live I couldn't live without it.

It is just, I don't know why I functioned this way. I just so reliant on, on new features now, apparently.

Yeah. That's exactly what my wrangling too, when I said those words, I'm like yes. I'm just gonna become a pawn in this roadmap of whatever AI got ready for us. A little cog. Yeah, a cog. There you go. Just a cog. Mm-hmm. Let's see. What I do, brakes or wheels? Hmm. Would I need the ability to go or the ability to stop?

Which one's more important? I gave my ranking. What's your ranking? Probably shouldn't not, I, I probably shouldn't have given my reasoning until you give your list, but, you know, but like, let's say there's no engine, then there's no car to begin with, right? So you define a car by its engine. I'd say so. Or is it the wheels?

[01:17:00] I guess without the engine, it's just a bicycle. Right.

J.R.: Or it's like a shell with wheels. Mm-hmm. Like the Flintstones. Right. You know, like it basically that's a shell with wheels.

Julie: How did they move themselves?

J.R.: You don't remember? It's just the, their feet touch the bottom.

Julie: Okay. That's exactly what I thought. Like, you don't need breaks, JR.

J.R.: Well, that's what I'm saying. Well, if you're powered by feet, then yes, you can stop by feet. Probab. I'm thinking of science, right? Like the energy. If you have an engine powered car, I don't think your feet will cut it, but if your feet powered, then I think your feet will cut it for brakes.

Okay. Okay. One catch. Actual engineers are like cringing. They're like, no, that's not how that works. The stupid, the stupid people on earth. So dumb. Why am I listening to this stupid episode? Ugh, close.

Julie: Yeah. I, I'll just end it with actually I don't even have a CD player in my car. Yeah. [01:18:00] I think, I think the most important thing to me is the ability to charge my phone in my car right now.

See valid answer. Those are my ultra first world desires.

Yeah. Bluetooth, or I just take the bike. I think that's, those are the two extremities there.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. If we're done with that one. The next one that I wanted to talk about was the owning a business versus having a job. Yeah. Do you want to talk about that one? Well, actually, I, I wanna know your, your motivation for this curiosity first.

For this question.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. My general thoughts are, I think owning a business is, versus having a job is similar to owning a house versus renting, which is similar to owning an avocado orchard versus buying an avocado. And obviously you can poke holes at that logic, but just follow along with me for the audience, if you're shaking your head.

[01:19:00] So I, I see it in this binary of more overhead and risk and ownership, but also maintenance, less overhead and risk and maintenance, but obviously more, not, I, I don't even wanna say obviously more price, but hopefully you can see the parallels like owning a business. Obviously there's, it's really risky, more income potential, but it's also more of a headache and it never goes away.

Whereas a job, you can clock it in for the hours and then just go home, be done with it. Same with owning a house versus renting. I, I reference Ramit Sethi a lot. The guy who wrote, I will Teach You to Be Rich. And it's like my, my whole personal finance philosophy, which is, sure, owning a house is a lifestyle decision, but I wouldn't call it a financial decision because if most people run the numbers wherever they live. 

A mortgage is the least you'll pay per month for a house. Whereas renting is the most you'll pay per month for housing. So if your rent is a thousand dollars a month, you normally don't pay more than that. If your mortgage is 2,500 a month, it will likely be more than that when you factor in like other maintenance [01:20:00] costs or insurance or taxes, all this other stuff.

Mm-hmm. And so same thing with owning an avocado orchard versus buying a singular avocado. Sure. The singular avocado is gonna cost you more than if you just own an orchard. You can just pick a free avocado. But is avocado really free? Because now you have to own the land, maintain it, pay property taxes or whatever.

The water, the soil, whatever, gardeners. I don't know. But yeah, you are getting a cheaper avocado and just like if you own a home, yeah, you're getting cheaper rent once you paid off, but there's a trade off and same thing with the business as well.

So that's, that was like just a random vomit of thought, but do you have any thoughts?

Julie: Yes. As you were just talking about the avocado orchard as well, now, I'm just curious if you can make a case for and against why someone would want to invest in an orchard or a house versus just getting the avocado or renting? I [01:21:00] mean, 'cause I'm thinking about immediate reasons why someone would want to get a house, let's say.

It's traditional. That's just the way the path goes. That could be one reason. Or some people might think, well, it's my money isn't like slipping through my fingers. My money stays in my land. It belongs to me. I think that's actually probably the primary reason. I know people would of course, try to own land or a home because it's an investment to them.

Their money will hopefully pay dividends to them or they get to retain it. Whereas rent, they'll feel like, well, I'm just giving, you know. 50 grand or a hundred grand to some company, I'm never gonna see it again. But you know, I know it depends, but I just, I wanna say right now, what would you say would be an argument for, against either situation?

J.R.: Yeah. And yeah, I think what you're, what you brought up is the traditional viewpoints of mm-hmm. Like owning versus renting. And that's why I parallel it with owning [01:22:00] an avocado orchard. Because if you put it in that sense, people will understand that it's not easy to just own an avocado orchard. There is the purchasing, the maintenance, and yeah, you are getting dividends with free avocados for the rest of your life or whatever, but it's not as easy as just you throw in money and then you get a return on investment.

Whereas if you buy an avocado, would you ever say that, oh, I bought an avocado, I wasted my money and therefore I'm not keeping my money. And I would say the reason why I parallel that is because no, most people would say, I bought the avocado, I got the value out of it. I got what I paid for and therefore I'm not losing money.

Right? Obviously, if you're looking at return on investment, buying a avocado orchard is gonna give you an in return, but it doesn't mean you lost by buying a singular avocado from the store. And I see that the same thing as renting. You didn't waste money on rent because you got the value out of living in a place for a certain time.

And, and I also propose in personal finance, if you don't run the numbers, like if a regular [01:23:00] 30 year fixed mortgage, whatever, if you don't run the numbers, you realize that you're paying more than 15 years worth of interest, not on your house, but interest paying back the loan. And so are you really optimizing your money at that point when in, in fact you could just rent, save that two grand extra you would be, or whatever that amount is, put it into the stock market and then you get your 10 to 12% returns or whatever.

And then from there you'll have a large lump sum, which we could buy a house cash at that point, but you still got the value out of your renting. So obviously numbers are numbers and you can have hard logic.

But I don't discount the fact that a house is a lifestyle and value purchase, so therefore, I would never say buying a house is wrong in any situation.

I would say it depends on your financial situation and your value system, because people would want a house because they have a family, they wanna host people. They traditionally just want to have that traditional house situation, and that's great. That's awesome. That's your whole decision.

But if you kind of camouflage it as a [01:24:00] financial decision, I think that's not correct. I think that's like, you know,

Julie: yes, I think so too. You're right. Yeah. I fully resonate when you said it's aval, it's, I think it's more values based than Exactly. Unless you're like flipping your home and reselling it or something.

J.R.: Yeah. Then it's like a, you have an intent to make money off it. That's different.

Julie: Yeah. Why would someone invest in, in an avocado orchard?

J.R.: That's the same thing as like owning a business or buying a house, right? It's the whole return on investment. Because theoretically you could own an avocado orchard and then have an avocado business.

Julie: Yes, you're right. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I was thinking about it from the pure

J.R.: you just eat your own avocado.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, what are they getting outta this? It would take Yeah. 30 years for 'em to feel like, yeah, I benefited from avocados. 

J.R.: No, I mean, same because you can own your house and now you, if you, once you pay it off, you have that as a part of your asset.

Yeah. Your assets, right? Yeah. So it's the same thing. Same thing as a business ob, if it's successful for the long term, you can sell it, whatever, and [01:25:00] you get money from it.

I think the parallel is that it's a long term thing. It's not an immediate, I get value out of this one store bought avocado. I get value out of this monthly rent. I get value out of this job immediately.

As opposed to a longer term higher risk, but potentially more return on investment.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so I guess to bring it all back, it's not necessarily, of course, I've never said it was like a right and wrong. It was more of like, what you value more on, because that's exactly it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Because some people like myself I enjoy renting because I enjoy not paying 15 years worth of interest. And then I know what to do with my money intentionally. But other people would want a house because they have dogs, or they have kids, or they have a family and they're married and they wanna live in a certain spot.

That's fantastic. Mm-hmm. I also would not wanna own an avocado orchard or a business or that, like a brick and mortar. But I think to some people it makes a lot of sense.

Julie: Do you wanna own a business someday?

J.R.: Yes. Well, [01:26:00] yes. I think, I think I have a lot of things that I have intended to make businesses. This podcast for one. My coaching practice, which actually is technically a business, but it's to scale it to the next level is what I want it to be. And so I think the only way to get actually wealthy, like wealthy, wealthy, to the level that I want is to own multiple businesses. And to leverage that, whatever, investments, et cetera.

Yeah. How about you?

Julie: You know, when I was younger, I always wanted to also lead a, a company.

J.R.: We talked about this, like you wanting to be a CEO, is that it?

Julie: Yeah, you're right. I think our last episode we did we did talk about it

J.R.: Because actually, like, why would you want to be a CEO and you're like, oh, just to have influence and to do some good work and to run, steer the ship sort of thing.

Julie: Yeah. Like kind of being controlled by own operations and how it's done. Yeah, basically. I guess it's just basically you're, you get to be your own project manager, but really [01:27:00] magnified by a hundred. So Yeah. But the thing that intimidates me is. Let's say your company grows to be like 10,000 people.

You know, like I, I think about that sometimes. Like, because I mean, I obviously have not ever been in the C-suite, so I don't know what it feels like to have to be responsible for a 10,000 employees. So I'm just curious what managing all that is like, and some of what are things I have to think about, but I'm sure I can read it in a book.

So, yeah.

J.R.: So you don't have any real interest in doing that anymore or

Julie: I, I have this preconception that it's gonna be extremely high stress 'cause you know, as you get to management and director levels, I know people have to make that decision of, oh do I sacrifice personal time, family time because my job will demand more responsibilities over time.

So I only imagine as you get to those levels I mean, unless you're like a great entrepreneur or something and [01:28:00] you call your own times and other people work for you and you don't have to be on call, I just feel like the path there is going to be really stressful. And I don't know if that's how I wanna continue to live for the next couple decades if I, you know, am afforded that much time on this earth.

So, I don't know. I think I'm, I'm wondering yeah what to, to do with my prime time.

J.R.: So. What about a question of scale? So I know in this sort of c-suite, CEO situation, it's thousands of employees or whatnot. But what about a scaling down of like maybe a dozen employees or at most a couple hundred or a hundred or so or something like that? Do you think that's feasible for you?

Julie: Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Well, the, now we're starting to get into more of like, do I have the, the talent to be able to, to delegate? That's a weakness I have is not being able to delegate very well. I could do it, but I have this insecurity that.

J.R.: Like regardless of scale, like regardless of if it's a dozen [01:29:00] employees or like thousands, you're saying you, you're not Yeah. You're not strong at delegating.

Julie: Yes. Just because earlier in our conversation I was talking a lot about how I'm so used to doing things on my own, being a doer, whereas strategizing and then seeing the big picture what people have to do in the long term it's not something I am as good at as just jumping in and doing it myself.

So it's quite difficult for me to explain to someone else this is how to do it and hopefully we can get there. Right. So, so, yeah, so that, that one's I'm not that great at it.

J.R.: I feel like I've heard from Tim Ferriss that delegation is a skill that we need to develop, especially if we want to build an organization.

And so I think about that too. 'cause I'm the same. I think for me, my natural inclination is I definitely can do it better than someone else. And or the effort to train someone to do what I do is not worth it. So I totally agree. How I approach it or how I'm going to approach it or am approaching it is I think my [01:30:00] scale of being a CEO or whatever, like owning and founding and running a company would be it's not going to be more than a dozen employees. Maybe I can hopefully start off with a few businesses that are really just a team of two or three. Right. And then I'll have other ones that are maybe larger.

And from there, if it ever scales to more than that, then I would definitely wanna partner and or exit.

But I can keep like these things that I have like a smaller close knit where I have a solid team around me, who I trust, who are competent, fill in those gaps, and then I can be strategy or whatever. But also just more simplicity because I personally don't wanna have like hundreds of employees plus just a small team.

Yeah. And I think that scale for me is like perfect because I have just the right amount of autonomy and control, but also like delegation. So I'm not super stressed out and it allows me to be able to unplug because it's such a small scale operation that I'm not like, stressed out constantly, that I have a hundred employees I need to make payroll for. It's just like, oh, it's just a couple, you [01:31:00] know?

And I think in technology these day and ages, it's super possible because people have these lifestyle businesses where there's a solopreneur. Mm-hmm. Or they have a small team. So I'm like, okay, I think it's feasible.

Julie: I agree. Yeah, that's true. I think if you had 10,000 employees at that point you're only having like 10 people report to you.

And those people are the ones that are handling their pyramid, I guess. Yeah, sure. That's true. Yeah. Maybe at that point you'll be so out of touch from everyone else in your company.

J.R.: That's true too. Yeah. Also that too, I just don't want too much complexity. 'cause like you, 'cause now if you have thousands or hundreds of employees, hundred, it's not about building a product and stuff, it's also about maintaining an organization.

Yes. You know, and just getting investors. I hear, yeah. No, that's you. I definitely don't wanna have any of my mm-hmm my personal companies be involved with investors like, no, this is mine. Like, yeah.

Julie: Yeah. So I guess owning a business and having a job. Well, right now I am doing a [01:32:00] little bit of both. I mean, of course I have my job, but I have my side hustles my online businesses and things.

So I use that as sort of my ways to practice and experiment with running a business. But I don't know if I'll ever get to a point where I want to hire more people or anything. I don't know, it's just not really in my game plan. Of course, you know, I wanted, if I wanted to be A-C-E-O-I-I would Absolutely.

But it's just right now, realistically, I'm just really comfortable just being the solo entrepreneur, not part right now.

J.R.: Definitely. Yeah. To get to that next level takes a lot more figuring things out, right. Or developing those skills. Yeah.

I am in the phase though with like my coaching practice where I have been actively looking for someone to help with my social media marketing, but also the strategy on business development or scaling. And so after lots of like dead [01:33:00] ends, I found this company that I'm hopeful for I literally signed a contract or an agreement y yesterday, or maybe it was this morning, of they seem like they're really competent and it's like a small team of three people.

And they have sectioned off like, okay, this person's gonna do strategy, this person's gonna do content. And then after month one, if it works out, we can move forward to month two, which is gonna be like brand awareness is month one, and then month two is gonna be like building out that funnel.

And the email list. And then from there, whatever the, whatever your audience responds to in terms of content and the funnel, then we can design a product around that. And then you'll have this sort of traditional funnel of being like a, coach in a specialty field, like a teacher sort of thing with digital products and coaching and whatnot.

Because that's kind of what the, my business model is. And so I'm like, okay, I don't wanna have to learn these skills of brand awareness and driving conversions to sales. Yeah. But, so let me hire and outsource, that's where that outsourcing question came from. And so, yeah, outsourcing that, because I know that's a skillset.

I don't wanna [01:34:00] try to knock my head against the wall to learn. And if it works out with them that they seem they know what they're doing, then ideally I can scale it to you know, three or four figures a month ideally. And then it'll pay for itself at that point. But I think even going through this process of paying for outsourcing, even though I'm not technically like making a profit at this point, I think it's worth it.

'cause at least now I get to learn how to delegate on a small scale. And so I'm kind of inching towards that, of building out my small team.

Julie: Yeah. No, that's really smart. You're right. I think that in areas where you could save time in areas where you're not an expert, it's, it just pays and how many fold so much just to have someone who's professional do it for you and you can actually focus on the next milestone or something.

J.R.: Yeah. So we'll see how that goes. I'm pretty excited. Hopefully it goes well. I hired a couple other social media managers and it was like so bad. I was like, what have you guys ever even been on social media? What kind of content you're creating? Like it was like static images of just like [01:35:00] text.

And I'm like, wow. So I'm paying for static images that I could run through chat GPT and get. I'm like, that's not gonna scale at all. It's not gonna convert anyone to be like, oh, I wish should listen to this guy and buy his products and get coaching from him. And like, it's just literally a text image.

So, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of really bad contractors out there or gig workers, I don't know. I'm like, okay, they can't be that bad. And then I hired a few that I'm like, oh, wow, that was a waste of money.

Julie: Yeah. I guess you still had to do the groundwork and experiencing doing your trial runs and doing the research. Yeah.

Do you have any other thoughts on this, this topic? Honestly, the only most relevant I, I recently was thinking about I mean, no one will call getting your nails done at a salon outsourcing, but that's how I viewed it because I, I don't I had never gotten my nails done at a salon until the last couple of years.

I was just very anti going to the salon and having someone else do it. I wanted to do it myself. But recently, [01:36:00] but I saw it as an exchange of a trade off of time and a speed and efficiency because I was like skill I was taking. Yeah, exactly. I was taking so long to do my own because I trying to achieve a certain thing, but I was staying forever and I was unsatisfied and I already put in like hours of just waiting around for it to work out and I'm like, dude, this is why I'm dropping this much money just so that a professional who's been doing it like 10 times a day can just do it in an hour and I will have stellar results.

This is what I'm paying for, not because I'm trying to be pampered or anything like that. So that was my trade off. That was my one thing where I thought about yes, this is worth having a true professional to it until I could figure it out myself. But until then, like it, I did look into doing certain techniques myself, but it was just gonna have a lot of costs.

Am I ready to put. This much money in for a lamp and these certain supplies and having, and putting in the time to learn the technique [01:37:00] correctly. So I was like, no, this is why I went back. Yeah. But it's such an inane thing to to bring up. But it was just all I thought about when you're talking about outsourcing.

J.R.: Yeah, no, that is outsourcing. I mean, gardening, landscaping, that's outsourcing. I guess technically what, like DoorDash, like that's outsourcing. Yeah. 'cause it's like a service, right? Like you could do it yourself, but you're paying for the convenience.

Julie: Yeah, absolutely. You're right. It all kind kind of comes down to that, the convenience of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's how I'll justify, you know, like the $15 markup or something. Yeah, no, definitely. And I'll obviously, and I'll be like, better have done something productive with the time I save, not walking there myself.

J.R.: That's true, that's true. I also, I think we all make those sort of decisions, trade offs. My thoughts are, as long as you're intentional about it and not just a throwaway like justification of, oh, there's, I'm so lazy or all the time. But it's mostly like, okay, I know, yeah, I know what my constraints [01:38:00] are. I know what my budget is and I know what the cost, value time.

Like they had, bogo Chipotle the other day I posted about it on my story. And it was like, buy one get one free Chipotle, and you just have to show a tattoo temporary or real or whatever, right? And yeah. And so this was like last week or something like that.

And so the va the, the numbers in my head are a Chipotle burrito is like 12 bucks ish or whatever. And so, okay, so I'm getting a free $12 value, but then I see the line outside. It was also during the heat wave and like, so eventually all in all, it was like 45 ish minutes until I got my burrito. But I'm like, let's say she round up to an hour is a $12 burrito worth an hour of my time? Where I could just buy it tomorrow and pay the full $12 and not waste my one hour waiting in the heat outside.

And so the answer was no. But I did it anyways. Experience, and plus I was getting one for a blessing, so I was like, okay, whatever. But I know that my, my time is not worth $12, which is [01:39:00] why I hate all of those grand opening or like sales like wait in line for five hours to get a discount of $20 or a $10 sandwich or a $6 boba drink.

I'm like, is your time really worth like $6 per three hours to get a tote bag and whatever. If it is true, but I don't think these people are doing the math. I think it's the hype of oh yeah, I'm the first whatever, and I get a free thing. And the premium of that free thing and that free Tumblr or tote bag, whatever means more to them than the 3.3 hours in line.

And maybe it's part of the experience too, whatever.

Julie: The value system, that's what it boils down to. Different

J.R.: Yeah, I know a a hundred percent. I, I totally agree. Like I know it's not, I'm not right, I just know that, oh, I definitely don't, don't I avoid crowds and waiting in line, like that's just, I hate that.

I'm like, no, I, I have too much money to do any of this stuff. Like I, I'm too good with my money to pay or to waste three hours of my time just to save 10 bucks. I don't know.

Julie: You know, when I [01:40:00] was in my early twenties, that was my motivation for wanting to be so rich so that I would never have to wait in the line ever again.

Yeah. For anything.

J.R.: I mean, same. I wish Disneyland had that sort of premium option to just to cut the lines like a flash pass at Six Flag. But they don't have that. 'cause I was like, the only way I would ever go to Disneyland by my own free will is if I could pay a ridiculous amount of money to cut these lines 'cause I hate waiting in lines.

Especially at Disneyland when it's just overcrowded. And so I'm like, yeah, I think I'm at that point where if I know I wanna do this thing, I'm just gonna pay money to do this thing with a better experience mm-hmm. And not waste my time.

Julie: Yeah, absolutely. Now only they could all actually know that's what TSA pre-check is for.

I was like, yeah.

J.R.: Yeah. That is what that's for. Although current events say that TSA pre-check does not work right now with all the TSA agents, you know, quitting or calling off. [01:41:00] Yeah. Wild. Yeah. That's wild. Okay. I think 

 Anything else comes to mind, things you've been pondering recently?

Julie: Well, we really covered a lot of things. I've been dream lately.

J.R.: Yeah. No, I mean same. I mean we've been talking for an almost an hour 50. Yeah. The only other things that I had that we talked about was the indulging burnout, balance, fulfillment, and then the other Yeah.

Julie: We didn't talk about the self-care thing.

J.R.: Yeah. Self-care essentially.But do you wanna talk about the burnout and indulging self-care?

Julie: Hmm. Well, I don't have like a pointed question about it.

All I can speak to is my relationship with it right now. I've been conscious of the last couple weeks of how I've been pacing my energy levels because I've been trying to figure out why I am not good at getting through my to-do list. I know people say like, oh, you have too much keep it to three.

That's probably why, you know, but [01:42:00] sometimes when you still just have three, it's just so overwhelming. So I thought am I just really unhealthy? Are my hormones off? Is that why I am just so fatigued that I can't even get to the third bullet point for today's to-do list? So yeah, I was definitely trying to hack and figure out how to get myself to be a productive throughout the day.

So what I've been doing is that if I exert myself one part of the day doing like I finished one like work task, I will allow myself to take that break because I just thought because before I wouldn't do that. 'cause I thought like I just did one thing. Like it's so small, you know, but I think I'm doing this in order to train my brain to recover so that it'll get back to work more quickly.

I think before I would just be working in such long spurts and then I would completely just shut down and be like, oh, I'm gonna take a four hour nap, or I deserve a three day break, you know, or something like that. [01:43:00] So, so yeah, so I think I'm just trying to, I mean, I'm starting, it feels like a workout regimen now, just the way I'm trying to pace.

My, my mental stamina as I'm switching. I think it's because I get so burnt out from just context switching. I have, I think I get really tired from just doing a bunch of different tasks in one go. So I'm just trying to handle that right now and taking those breaks. And for me when I give myself that break I felt guilty because I thought I was indulging, you know, by watching a little bit of TV or taking a, like a break to, to eat something I thought that was indulging.

So for me, now, I'm trying to perceive it as I'm taking care of myself so I could do better in my next sprint or something. So, that's my silly little game I've been playing with myself last couple weeks.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Do you feel like it's been helping? Like it's, has it been effective?

Julie: I think for me everything is frequently psychological, so I think it's been helping me mentally is that if [01:44:00] I just let go of the guilt of taking a break after such a short task being completed, I think it has tricked me or maybe it does work.

Who knows? Into thinking that because I took that break like one, I have no reason to not be able to do, get back into the next task. And and I think that's, yeah maybe that is what's just driving me right now is because I gave myself a break. I felt, I don't know if I physically felt better, but I just felt mentally more able to, unless that's the same thing.

I know they work together, but I don't know. Maybe think about that a more, it sounds a little weird. It is my first time talking about this.

J.R.: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, no, I mean, let's talk through this. I like these sort of, obviously we have these discussions a lot, but so. It seems like now you're adopting more of a shorter cycle of like exertion and recovery as opposed to a three hour spurt and then a three hour recovery or something like that.

But you're doing more of [01:45:00] like smaller cycles. Is that what you're doing?

Julie: Yeah, yeah. I, exactly. That is exactly what's happening. Mm-hmm.

J.R.: And then you feel like it's helping, like this sort of model is better for you, your productivity?

Julie: I feel like it's, yeah, it's kind of like, I would equate it to snacking throughout the day.

Instead of having a bunch of giant meals. I felt like the giant meals were slowing me down and making me like unproductive. Whereas if I just snack my, I can keep the ment tip going. Yeah. I see. There's not too much to bog me down. Okay. I hope it's working. You're like, I, I hope, I think like, don't gaslight myself.

J.R.: So then do you feel like, I know you mentioned context switching and I know that's another element to it. And you know the whole idea of the deep work and you set aside a block of time. Yeah. So like, so what are your thoughts on that?

Julie: My thoughts on deep work. Yeah. I think before maybe we even talked about it the last couple episodes, how I was such [01:46:00] a like a wanter of getting into deep focused work in order to, I don't know, like ex correct.

Something open I hope. But I mean, I feel like, okay, well on one side, on one hand I was gonna say that only happens for me sometimes. Like I can't consistently get into it, but that I could argue that, well, maybe it's 'cause I'm not setting myself up for that environment or success in order to consistently be able to do it.

I could argue both ways, but realistically I actually have not been able to get into deep work mode, especially at work because, i'm always being pulled into a different meeting, you know, or someone like I need a, like I want to talk to someone, or there's just distractions. And so frequently, the only time I've ever been able to get into deep work is when I do it in my car.

Like I just turn on my laptop and then I'm in this this sound like soundless room. Isolated space. Yes, exactly. That's the only time I've really been able to truly focus. So I think I've been struggling with this because [01:47:00] of just having to be expected to work from eight to five. But then I'm completely gassed by two or three o'clock and I'm like, I feel like I only got two hours of work done.

I hope my work doesn't see this because I really am maximizing all my efforts. It's just, am I doing my full? I don't know. Like you're, you have eight hours, are you working the full eight hours? So it's just, you are given so much time throughout the day. I'm just trying to figure out like, it, it would be wasteful to just be tired, like three quarters of it or something.

J.R.: Have you tried not being tired so hard? Yeah. Network to me it's easy, Julie, just be not tired, just have energy. It's, yeah, just solves your problem.

Julie: It's true. I know people like get up and walk around just to reinvigorate themselves and stuff too. Yeah. But I just say like mentally though, you know?

J.R.: Yeah. And you work from home, right? Three, [01:48:00] three out of the five days? I do. Okay. Do you find it's different when you're in office or No.

Julie: It is, I mean, I love being in the office because I get to see coworkers and socialize. Because that invigorates my motivation to do a good job at work because Okay, like I said, the community, I feel like we're all working the environment the same feature together, you know?

Yeah. But but the trade off is that I can't focus on anything. So I often stay really late at work. That's when I can focus is when there's no one in the office. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Interesting. So, but I can only do that because I'm like single, un married, no kids, you know? So Of course, of course. Yeah. No pets.

J.R.: Yeah, right now you can. So you're saying that productivity wise in office, out of office, not really a difference, but obviously you're a little bit more energized because you're around the environment your coworkers, et cetera. But it also seems like you,you understand the value of [01:49:00] deep work and you would like to get into it, but sometimes it's hard to, because of the environments or whatever, but also it's because you're being pulled into meetings.

So it, it's like manager versus maker schedule. Like you are naturally in like a manager schedule because of these meetings. Not necessarily saying you're a manager, but it's that. Yeah. Because you're context switching because of all these different meetings as opposed to like you're a maker schedule where it's like you have three hours of blocked time.

And ideally if you have that space and you're not distracted, then you could do all those things.

Julie: Yeah, that's true. People have have advised me like, why don't you block off safe space times in your schedule too? I think I think I've been resistant to it 'cause I want to be able to be responsive or something, but yeah, maybe that's the issue. Maybe I need to draw some boundaries.

J.R.: Oh yeah, there's that too. I didn't prescribe anything. I was more just reit like trying to figure out all the situations, like the, all the elements. 'cause I, I totally agree and I understand too. 'cause I think I feel the same way where it's, I know I don't [01:50:00] get more than X amount of hours of productivity. And I know that being in office, even though I'm never in office, would change that dynamic.

I don't, I think I would be more productive, but I'm not really sure. But I also am in, dragged a lot of meetings, so by the time it hits 2:00 PM I'm like, did I get any work done? Because I was in like four meetings and it's draining. So there's a lot of pieces to that.

Julie: Yeah. So yeah. So that's what I've been doing in order to do immediate self care.

Mm-hmm. And then when it, I think when I start getting burnt out, I start to indulge because mm-hmm. You're just running on fumes and you're like, well, I deserve the whole pizza this Friday. You know, I've been working so hard.

I see.

The self-maintenance though. I always, I have this, someone told, what, did they say something about your future self?

Yeah. But either way, I've always thought that was, I liked it and I wanted to [01:51:00] pursue the thought of I'm taking care of the person I'm gonna be in five years from now, you know? So, yeah.

J.R.: One of my, the reels on this page, we talked about it self-care versus luxury purchases and indulging. And I was like, well, I understand the sentiments and I think the distinction is that the way I define self-care is taking care of your future self. Or things that take care of you for the long term versus the short term gratification, which feels great in the moment, but does not take care of you for the long term. Like buying a purse or let's just say a massage that's more just for just comfort in the moment.

Sure, maybe you, it does feel good in the moment, but eating that hamburger or whatever is not going to give you, it's not really self-care in that sense. It's more indulging.

And I guess, and this isn't to say one is wrong and one is right, it's more of a, I think definition is important and how we define and how we set it up for ourselves.

Because I agree with you, I find myself in those situations as well where it's [01:52:00] okay if I'm working hard and I'm pushing myself, I need to rest and recover. Same thing with working out. Like you can't push for forever every single day. Recovery is just as important for performance as actually doing the work.

And so, I would never discount recovery. And I think if we have those small indulgences, you can categorize it as recovery and that should be fine. The way I see it is diluting yourself into thinking that indulging isn't necessarily self-care. By the way I define it.

I think they both have their time and space. I think decompressing and indulging has its time and space. If you're in recovering.

I think self-care is a different category that we need to make time for because we wanna take care of our future self. And I don't think those are the same in our sort of schedule.

Does that make sense?

Julie: Yeah. I have a question. When do you, how do you decide when you get to indulge versus when you need to stay focused on your future self and self-care?

J.R.: Do you have an exec? Do you have an example of indulging?

Julie: Well, yeah. Let's say I'm in my moment of rest and [01:53:00] recover, right? And I need to take a break, but I have a choice between giving into my urges for getting boba or like the Korean fried chicken. But I know that I have this goal of either losing weight or lowering diet, like my, like cholesterol or whatever. So I should be reaching for the Greek yogurt or whatever, you know. So, I mean, I guess I could be overthinking this, but it's just, but realistically though, we have to make these types of decisions all the time.

So how what is your threshold? How do you do your decision making in those varied moments?

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Okay. So now here's my coaching brain thought process is and how I approach the diet thing, or at least the nutrition thing or the indulging in sweets. 'cause I also indulge way too much in desserts.

Like, seven leaves, if I didn't get this, my diet for today would be a win because I have all my protein, all my fiber and my calories would be good. But I'm like, I'm really craving [01:54:00] coffee and probably because I didn't get the best sleep last night. And so I'm like, I'm gonna take the L or I'll be close to it, whatever. But to your point, it's like, okay, maybe we have those cravings.

From a nutrition coaching standpoint, I would advise myself that I have these alternatives, like my protein ice cream, or I have my Boba tea protein that is a substitute not always my desired substitute or like frozen berries and as opposed to any other sort of high calorie dessert.

And so I try to pack in my nutrition and my schedule and my groceries with these healthy alternatives to make it the threshold easier to get that than to go out and get sort of boba or ice cream. And for me, I always make it harder to get those things, meaning I have to pay premium prices and I have to drive there. I never have it at home.

But I guess to the spirit of your question, which is more like indulgences is I think. I think I also do allow for those sort of indulgent moments if I know that I've checked the box for my priorities for the day.

And for me [01:55:00] personally, what that looks like is, did I get my workout and or steps in at this moment? Did I get one important thing done in my personal life, like working on my blog or my podcast or, obviously important things at work are a little bit different.

But if I've checked those boxes of okay, my fitness priority and then my like personal priority and I've done those two things, I really am guilt free for the rest of the day to f around and watch a movie like at AMC or indulge on social media for a little bit or watch some anime.

'cause I'm like, I checked on my boxes, I did my priority items. Relatively compared to other people, let's say some people don't even get that one workout. And I'm not trying to compare myself, but if I frame in that perspective, it's okay, well I've already won the day. I got my one priority, my workout, I can indulge and I don't feel guilty.

And when I look back on my year, I'm like, okay, well I've made progress on all those things because I focused on my priority items and I didn't feel bad about indulging in stuff I probably shouldn't have, let's say social media for me. And so therefore we're good there.

And everything [01:56:00] else I try to automate and outsource. So like I automate my diet with like my meal services, subscription deliveries.

I was telling blessy this, like I think 95% of what I eat is subscription based because it, I value, I value convenience and like nutrition. Yeah. Like my meals, I have athletic greens. I'll link it in the bio, my whatever.

No, but so like it's a green protein drink, right? Yeah. My Boba tea protein. My David protein bars. And then my meal service, which covers two of my three meals per day. Literally all that is subscription based. And then I have my one seven leaves or going out to get ice cream, so I don't have to think too much about nutrition. So in terms of fitness and nutrition. All that is outsourced. I don't have to think about it.

But in terms of the whole indulging thing, I allow some buffer only when I know I've gotten the important things done. 

Julie: You ever get tired of just having that discipline and routine? Do you have like days where you're, you fall behind or anything like [01:57:00] that?

J.R.: In what sense? Like in what area?

Julie: Like you don't work out for the day or you Oh or what is it? You didn't get that priority done, you're just so sleepy. Or yeah, I guess when you're, you, you get student check off all the boxes.

J.R.: Yeah, that's a good question. I think my first thought is I don't have a lot of boxes to check off. It really is two, it's one health related and then one productivity related. So it's a easier game to win when I just have only two goals. But in terms of the physical thing, I don't ever negotiate with my workouts.

Like I tell, I have fitness clients now, so I, I do productivity, fitness coaching. And a big thing is okay, how do I get into the gym? For me, what I told them is it's scheduled in my calendar, so it's non-negotiable. It's like I wake up and brush my teeth every day I go to the gym. When it's my gym days. I don't negotiate that. It's just part of it.

So I don't use any willpower to do [01:58:00] that. Same thing with my 10,000 steps. Like it's non-negotiable because it's already decided. And so that's like a willpower technique sort of thing. But there are times when I don't get to let's say, editing my podcast because I just, whatever, for whatever reason, I don't get to it.

I do feel like I give myself grace because there is no real hard deadline for that. It's more just me arbitrarily sort of deciding it. But I know that as long as I still set aside. Intentional time each day. I eventually will get to it. So I might not finish it today, but I will finish it later this week.

And because it's always just that one thing and then I'll try to minimize the things I need to focus on.

And then there's maintenance stuff. Like, I need to go grocery shopping, I need to get gas, whatever. But that's not, you know, like we all have stuff to do. But I think I try to keep my list very, very small and minimal and it has to be a priority for me.

If it's not a priority, I try to outsource, delegate, or just cross it off the list.

Julie: Okay. Yeah. You do prior prioritize very well and aggressively.

J.R.: So that I can wait in line in Chipotle for [01:59:00] an hour during work because I'm a bum with nothing else going on.

Julie: Just your values, you know?

J.R.: Yeah. This, yeah, that. No, that was that. I mean, that was from two to 3:00 PM man, that was during work hours. I was just like, fuck it. You know, like, let's just go and I'm like, this is not worth my time, but we're gonna do it anyways. 'cause I like the story that I get to tell now about how annoyed I was.

Julie: How do you, how do you work in like admin time where you have to do your taxes, fill out paperwork for various things.

Someone wronged you at UPS and you're like, oh, I gotta get my money back. You know, like those things. Yeah, they take time pop up.

J.R.: No, I agree. I feel like I'm not the best at this, but I try to get that stuff done off my list as fast as possible. 'cause they're not the exciting things, right?

This isn't my life purpose, this is not.

This podcast and like my coaching, it gives me energy.

Doing taxes is not. Going to whatever errand does not give me any [02:00:00] energy. So it's one of those like maintenance things where like we just gotta do it. So I think my strategy is just to get it done as soon as possible. And sometimes that is my one thing for the day.

Sometimes I'm like, look, I'm not getting any passion projects done today. I just need to get my stupid taxes done. And that is the one thing. And for me, that has been relatively effective.

Julie: Okay. No, I agree. I think two things you're doing already is probably the reason why you've been able to maintain so well is like you keep your priority list low and you prioritize outsourcing, delegating.

Yeah. And just doing things right away.

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not, and it's not easy too, but I think as I retrospect on my week or my month or my year, and I'm like, okay, I've given myself grace when a more productive person would've done 10 times as much as I have. But when I'm like, okay, lemme look at my 2025, I'm like, I accomplished a lot, you know, and it was piece by piece and it was a little by little, and I could have got there faster.

But I'm proud of myself for doing that. I celebrate my wins and then I think [02:01:00] that allows me to keep going. And now 10 years in, they're all habits. So I don't have to think about them too much. And I know that's a tricky unlock because it would be nice for everyone to be able to get there, but I think it's leaning into the consistency, the small prioritization, and then looking back and celebrating that wins helps to reinforce the behavior of me journaling every day or working out every day or not every day, but every other day or, or getting my steps in or whatever.

Now it's like a habit that I can't break, but it's only because I've also celebrated the wins Looking backwards when I think a problem people have is they don't look back and celebrate the how far they've gone. And they, so therefore they don't give themselves grace when they do slip up. And then they're like, oh, what I'm doing is working.

And so that's what I try to do in my coaching is to show my clients that they are getting these wins. Like they have to track their food, they have to track their weight so they can see those wins, so that every week we can celebrate together that you're losing weight and therefore your retention is gonna be higher for the right behaviors.

And I've found that's been successful over the last six weeks I've had [02:02:00] these clients. Mm-hmm. They've been consistently losing weight. They've been consistently measuring their weight, tracking their calories, taking progress photos. And I know psychologically that them seeing the wins will help them develop that consistency.

Julie: Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. I mean, I don't, I'm not good at doing what you just described, but I totally agree because I used to. Right. You understand? Yeah. I used to do that and it's true. I really, it helped to see the progress and that pushes the momentum a whole lot.

J.R.: Yeah, of course. And yeah, I love this sort of thing of like habit change, behavior change.

And I always tell this all the time whenever I'm, I'm not like pitching anybody in my coaching services, but it's more just like, look, if it was just about knowledge, right? Once we had Google and chat GBT, we'd all be millionaires with abs. But we're not. And so I think a part of that is it's not just knowledge. Some people do need some more knowledge and they just dunno where to find it. And that's fine. But it's also the psychology accountability and the guidance for someone who can translate that.

And I [02:03:00] feel like that's one of my strengths is being able to translate what I've learned and teach someone else in order to change their behavior.

No matter the field, whether it's personal finance, relationships or fitness or productivity, those are all fields that I'm interested in 'cause I do it for myself. But I'm able to teach people this in my coaching because I understand how human psychology works and behavior changes because I've done it on myself and helped other people with it.

So I guess that is a pitch for myself or a plug. Check out yonocruzcoaching.com, marloyonocruz.com, any of these sites.

I love building this. 'cause it's like, I tell people too, my friends, I'm like, I would do this stuff for free, but I need to charge people because they don't take it seriously if they don't pay money for it.

And so even with my clients who are also my friends, like I don't charge them actual rates that other coaches would because I, for me, I wanna get them results and those results will be good for testimony for me and experience as well. And so I charge 'em very minimal and it's a win-win.

And then in years I can charge a lot more because now I have a solid service. [02:04:00] I've had experience and I have testimonies under my belt. And so that's a business model I've been following. Correct. But it's not about the money for me. Like I, I told my friend last night, I'm like, I would do this. I would do this like financial coaching to you for free. But I would encourage people to pay for something that means to them. 'Cause psychologically they'll buy into it more rather than just a friend telling you what to due, you're not gonna do it.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. When did you realize that this was what you were good at? Did it take like, is it still something that's formulating every day? Or you one day you were just like, this is it, this is the thing I'm gonna hone in on.

You mean just like coaching in general or the ability to recognize that you're able to focus on psychology and people's behavior in order to make change.

J.R.: Oh. Like when did I connect the dots that like, this is something that I'm good at. Well, okay, here's a few sort of dot connectors.

The fact that my job and all of my hobbies and the things that remember, like what [02:05:00] gives us energy, they all connected to the same thing, which is mm-hmm.basically fundamentally it's me teaching what I've learned to other people. But teaching is a skill in itself. It's not just passing along information.

I'm not just chat GPT or I'm not just Google, right? But it's the ability to synthesize information in a way for their receptive to it and to unlock their own personal psychology, or for me to understand their personal psychology so that I can tailor the solution to them. That's something that I've been doing professionally as a technical project manager, scrum master.

I do it for fun in my dance team, you know, like, I'm like, Hey, you need this role and I will enjoy doing it, so you should hire, you should give me this position. And then they did. And then I do coaching for free for my friends for the last 10 years on stuff that I've learned and got results on. And I enjoy seeing them get those results because I'm able to again, synthesize and help them change their behavior.

And so all these dots or these things aligned, and I'm like, well, that's 10 green lights in a row. Why would I not just do this or pursue this professionally or in a more structured way as a business?[02:06:00] 

Julie: Is this your I guy? Would you consider that your Iki guy?

J.R.: So maybe yes, but I think I've had this realization for maybe the last four or five years that at the core of who I am is a teacher.

Mm. But the root cause or the root motivation behind that is, is because I love learning. And so I think the other side of the coin of learning is teaching, but if I apply that to the world and what makes people, like what uplifts people or what makes the world a better place is teaching someone to improve their own life.

And so it's like combining all those things. It's like, okay, so I guess at my core, I'm just a teacher. And it kind of, it made sense to me when I made the realization and now I'm just doing those things with this podcast, with my coaching, with my career, my professional career, and these other businesses that I wanna do is, it's all revolved around me learning and then teaching other people.

Yeah, I don't know if that'll survive an apocalypse. I might just lean on the comedy thing.

Julie: Oh yeah, I know. I totally think so. [02:07:00] I totally think so. Yeah.

J.R.: Maybe, or I could just be the court jester in our, in our village and just make people laugh. So we actually, you know, now that I think about it, humor is a type of psychology sort of as art.

Art, that's right. Yeah. What I'm saying. Mm-hmm. It's like understanding how people's brains work, and that's how you structure a joke and or the execution of that joke.

Julie: Okay. Yeah, that's quite scientific. You're right. That is that more than just raising serotonin levels.

J.R.: No, yeah, a hundred percent. Because I think that's definitely a, it's like a science as much as is, as, as is an art.

Julie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is really cool.

J.R.: Do you, I mean, now to throw it back over you, do you feel like you have any sort of idea or direction in terms of your own sort of iki guy?

Julie: I haven't finished my Ikigai workbook to give you the final answer. Yeah, yeah. But I have a gut feeling, or my prediction is that it's going to be [02:08:00] related to guiding people, being a helper, a connector. Because frequently, you know, when I sign up to do volunteer work or anything, I really am always most curious about what people want out of this and how I can help them achieve that dream or that goal.

I mean, unfortunately, I'm not like an investor where I can just give people so much money to reach their dreams. But I still wanna be someone who is like an agent in their lives that can help them get from maybe like a less fortunate place to a better position in their life. So, I, I mean, I know there's lots of roles out there, like a counselor, social worker, a mentor. So, I, I wanna be able to do something like that for, I don't know what space it's gonna look like. I think I'm still exploring that for the next maybe 10, 20 years. But let's just say, you [02:09:00] know, I'm just throwing stuff out right now. I told you a long time ago that I, in retirement I wanted to run a cafe with an open mic, you know, and so for me the purpose was to have a community center for people to come to and enjoy.

What is it? Well, like, I guess a witness, their community coming together and performing and stuff. But another one is very, I don't know if you've seen the movie Honey with Jessica Alba, but Oh, that's throwback. Yeah. So that's, so in there, her mom is she runs a Center for Kids and teaches hip hop and stuff.

I was like, I wanna run a center for kids, you know, give them a safe space to go to and stuff. You know, culture Shock LA does something like that already for the community. And then I once talked to a mentor and they told me like, Hey, you know, you seemed pretty in touch with your Buddhism roots.

Like there are people who have been kind of like the Dalai Lama, but who have kind [02:10:00] of been appointed, I don't know, spiritually or practically appointed, but they've been appointed in this life to be that person that is just like doing things for people trying to help people in life. That's kind of like their sacrifice in the world.

That's their role is that they are just there to help people get to where they need to be next. So, I don't know. I haven't really explored that, but she told me about that concept. So I need to figure out who these like opposite of grim reapers are. You know, like the, the anti grim reaper. So the person that guides you through life and, and enables you to the next positive step.

J.R.: Oh, I see. Interesting. Ah, man, there's a lot of. Have you watched Zoolander? No, it's an old movie. Okay. Well it's Ben Stiller. He's a male model. It's a comedy, it's one of my favorite movies of all time.

And so he creates a center for kids who can't read good. And it's just so stupid. But he's like, yeah, the [02:11:00] Derek Zoolander Center for kids who can't read good.

And anyways I can't do it justice, but it reminded me to like a center for kids and like, who can't read good. And then they build this model where it's like a you know, to show what the building would look like.

And then he looks at it and he like throws it on the floor. Anyway, it's about male models and how they're supposed to be stupid. It's so, he plays a really dumb character. So he sees the model and he like throws it on the ground. He's like, what is this a Center for Ants? How can you expect to teach kids how to read when they can't even fit inside the building?

And then they're like, it's just a model, Derek. And he's like, no, it has to be real human sized. It has to be three times bigger than this. You're absolutely right. And so, yeah, it's so dumb. A center for ants. A center for Ants. Oh yeah. So stupid. My sister and I grew up quoting that movie, but oh gosh, no, I like that a lot.

And what, what was the other thing I was gonna say? For being like a like a guiding person. There's a lot of things that came to mind, but I feel like there is a lot. oh no, sorry, lemme go back to that.

The Cafe [02:12:00] Dream, you're the third person now on this show who has wanted to open a cafe, but in a community space, there's just so many. Did we talk about this?

Julie: No, but you've told me that you had a friend who also had the same thing. Yeah. You know, and honestly, now that I look up on Yelp, I'm like, there are so many people who are creating their third place, you know?

So I was like, I think this says something about our generation. So.

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense that desire to have community and like a space, but it's also like the coffee shop vibe or community space fits that sort of like pain point or that desire. And so I think that's why we're manifesting all the same dream.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I'm saying I don't know what mine is, just because there's already a lot of it out there. I just need to be able to figure out what it is I specifically can gap that I could fill that doesn't already exist.

J.R.: But what if it does exist? Then you can still do it in a really good way that adds value and you can make it to something.

Julie: That, that is that is fair. I actually [02:13:00] met someone, a business owner who once told me he was like, you know, I'm not really good at coming up with original ideas, but I know I could take someone else's idea and do it better. So that's another way definitely looking at it. It's just I never opted for that track. 'cause it's, it's, I guess it's not like a, what is it?

It doesn't fall into who I am as a person, but I can definitely do it. Mm, mm-hmm. I guess I just, it never, I never, it never occurred to me to just do that.

J.R.: So is it that you want to be distinctly good at something or is it you just don't wanna do something that someone else has done? Or?

Julie: I think I don't want to reinvent the wheel, you know?

Right. Like, yeah. Part of it is, yeah, it would be nice to come up with something original and unique, even though not everything, most things are not original and unique, but I think sometimes I could find, I think I could say, oh, it's wasteful. 'cause I'm like, someone already made this great thing.

Like, why are you trying to just do better, do something else? Like someone already is fulfilling this gap, you know?

But [02:14:00] then I guess that's what our whole system of what is it? Capitalism. That's how it works, right?

J.R.: Yeah. Because it's not always that someone has done it, hasn't done it, and therefore it is good.

Sometimes someone will do it better and or sometimes it's like an artisan sort of thing where it's not always the Starbucks that wins it is the artisan coffee shop that is not doing it better, but it is doing it in a way that people like it more.

Julie: Right. You are so right. Yes, yes, yes. I agree with that totally too. Mm-hmm.

J.R.: Yeah, because yeah, you like, let's say coffee shop. You won't beat Starbucks at being a coffee shop by those metrics. But that does not mean that there aren't a lot of coffee shops that are popping up all the time that are wildly successful or will stay around for a long time.

But also there's the art aspect of it, because also thinking about painting. People have painted, so you should never become a painter. People have already done it better.

However, I don't doubt that people will still be selling paintings because everyone's art is gonna be different and therefore valuable. And I think no [02:15:00] matter what business or career, you can always put your own artistry, your own personality or perspective into it. And it will be different even if it's still the same. And I think there's value in that.

Julie: No, you're right. I completely forgot. There is a different stroke for every folk. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's true. There's no need to be like, well there's already Starbucks, so I should just give up on my dream.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, clearly people have not given up on the coffee shop dream. Yeah. And it's, and it works for people, so.

Julie: No. Yeah. People have created beautiful coffee shops and awesome creations. That's true. I think that is important. That's how we get innovation too. People keep building upon what exists. Yes.

J.R.: And they do it their own way that people might like or resonate with more because your unique perspective or approach is always gonna be different than something else. Right.

Julie: Yeah. No, you're totally right. Yes. I'll keep you updated on when I get to the end of that workbook though. Maybe it's, no, that's exciting. Nothing what we talked about. It's gonna be something so different maybe. [02:16:00] Who knows? Yeah.

J.R.: What is the workbook exactly? So, ikigai, for the audience, do you want to, do you wanna go over that with them?

Julie: Oh yeah. The workbook is just it's just supposed to help me figure out what my Iki guy is. I picked it up in a bookstore while I was traveling. 'cause I like to buy notebooks and pens when I'm traveling to keep myself busy. But this one is supposed to give me exercises to really tear apart and figure out what my purpose is.

So some of the exercises, they'll be like, Hey, grab a photo of when you were like, I don't know if it said like, when you're most happy or when it was from your childhood, but I understand that exercise is supposed to give me a clue as to maybe what gave me a lot of energy or, you know, what would I do for free?

So I think all of those exercises at the end is supposed to point me to the answer.

J.R.: I see. So you're still kind of like doing those exercises, reflections, mm-hmm. Things that stir the brain and then you'll kind of get a direction by the end of it.

Julie: It's really, I [02:17:00] think, just a really long reflection exercise.

J.R.: Right. Huh. So it seems like you actually, you have some sort of, were some of these things that you discovered different than we expected?

Julie: No. These things, I, it just well, one, I haven't finished the workbook, so because I haven't, I was just more conscious of it in my daily life. Like when I like volunteer for certain meetups or when I'm at work, I just notice that I have repeated patterns of why I do certain things and you know, what gives me energy.

And so I notice that I do really enjoy just getting to know people and seeing how I could serve them or if there's something I could do to help them. And I was like, is this gonna be it? This is gonna be my true calling. I don't know. I just don't know what form it's gonna take.

J.R.: Yeah, definitely. I would imagine that maybe you've been exposed to some roles that might be a good roles, careers, [02:18:00] whatever, that might be an amazing fit.

But maybe it's one of those things where if you're not paying attention, it'll kind of pass you by. Yeah. So maybe there are things that are really good fit for you, but you're just like, haven't focused on or seeing it or noticed it yet.

Julie: Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. That was kind of one of the cool things about being random in my twenties and thirties, almost e twenties, is that I just said yes to a lot of opportunities that came up.

You know, I never thought I was gonna teach dance for kids or do those things, but I just said yes because the opportunity came up. And so I kind of look forward to those wayward things that come up. Who knows, who knows where I'm gonna be in 20 years. Maybe you'll find me on Wall Street and without a, like a conscience. Who knows?

J.R.: And investors do that too. Like when you're a board on a, like an investor in a company or an angel investor or those sort of like VCs, they go in and invest money, but they also help steer the ship or give guidance to the owner founders as well. And so that's a [02:19:00] high money version of what I feel like you're saying of that sort of function is, you know, doing that. But obviously like social worker or things like that are other options that aren't like as lucrative.

Julie: Yeah. They do exist in every way possible. Mm-hmm. Just different names. Exactly. You're just solving problems. Yeah, you're right. I just really don't know what the skin is gonna be, you know?

The, the skin? Like

Yeah, like what the, like what the, well, you know, the function, but not like the outside like label or whatever.

Yeah. I don't know what form it's gonna take, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I'm obviously just focusing on whatever it is I feel my hobbies are, but mm-hmm. But but you know, when you're talking about that, I was thinking about there's people who end up in the industries. They are, because they've been working at it in this, in a similar pipeline.

Like they went to school for it. They were able to go from entry senior, et cetera in order to get to where they are. But then there's also stories of [02:20:00] people who kind of just fell into it. Or maybe it was their hobby and they like to just tinker with this and that, and they just are just excellent at it now.

My question is, do you think there's any more correct path or it just really depends on the person in terms of your ability to succeed in that area.

Like, is there, is there a way that's, that guarantees more success?

Oh, because in one, it's such a p pragmatist in one way. I see the person who is just tinkering with things, they're successful because they, you know, they just doing in their free time. So they innately, inherently just are passionate about it, right? Mm-hmm. And maybe that's, and they get better at it.

But then the other side, it's because they have all the experience. They've been exposed to it for 15 years and maybe that's why they're so successful. Is there something you could speak to for both scenarios?

J.R.: So they just happen to be good at it because they've just been doing [02:21:00] it for so long, but it's not necessarily by choice? Is that what you're saying?

Julie: That's, that's just my hypothesis. Like maybe that's like one option.

J.R.: Okay. I think I understand what you're saying or asking and. This is kind of the same advice that I usually give to undergrads when I do these random alumni panels at like UCI and stuff like that.

Yeah. I just go straight up, ask them. I'm like, what are you most worried about? And how can I alleviate those fears? Right. And so, and obviously it's always career related, et cetera.

And then I bring it back to, okay, so if you are scared about being employed and being a productive member of society and making a stable income, et cetera, et cetera, how do we get there?

And so if we reverse engineer that answer is high paying jobs, stable career. Sure, whatever. How do we get that high paying career stable job? You have to develop skills, obviously skills at that. What is the best way to develop skills at something that's meaningful or whatever? It's by doing it for a long period of time.

How do you do it for a long period of time? You could be forced to [02:22:00] do it for a long period of time, but I think a better way is finding what you're naturally good at, what energizes you, those green lights. And that will allow you to persist to do those things for longer periods of time. If you have a choice, obviously. That you'll develop a skill that people will pay you for, that you'll have security from in that order.

Whereas sure. Maybe people buy luck in happenstance they fall into a career, they do it, they find that it's just a good fit and they, they stay there. Great. That's awesome. You're set

Some people who just do it because they're just doing it, but they're not really passionate about it. By 15 years, sure, they develop a level of skill. Mm-hmm. And sure they get paid a lot, but did they enjoy the journey where they stress out every single day? 'cause they're doing something they're not meant to do. Obviously not ideal.

But what I would suggest someone going into the workforce is do a lot of things like what Julie has done and then try all those things and try to tinker at them.

Or if you can make it a career, great. But the more you spread your cast, your net wide when you're early in your life so that you can start going towards those things that you like, see those green lights, [02:23:00] you get energy from that, that's probably something you would have more sustainability to develop skill at.

Because if you love doing it, you'll probably do it more easily in 20 years rather than someone's forcing, you're forcing yourself to go to law school or medical school and you're not really meant to do that.

And therefore for me, I guess maybe to answer the question that to me is the more ideal, most successful rate to a good career and or stability of financial et cetera. Is you need to have the self-awareness and try a lot of things that you can go towards the right, go up the right ladder and not the wrong ladder for 10 years or 15 years, 20 years.

Julie: You know, that just reminded me of? I watched Death Note for the first time recently. Oh really? Yes. And I don't know if there's anything I can watch that would be better than that. So that might be my one and done enemy, but yeah. So the main character is a genius and, but he's so good at anything he does, he's bored.

I guess his passion is I guess, how would I describe it? Killing people. No, yeah. I'm like, [02:24:00] is it, it's justice. His passion is justice, I think. Oh, you're right. You're right. There you go. It is justice. But I forgot what was the, it's just when you, yeah. What was the takeaway? It reminded me of him.

He's just so good at everything. Yeah, he is so good at me, but he's bored of it. You know, he's not necessarily passionate about all the things he's great at. His true passion is justice and he really put his all into

J.R.: He got good at it. I'll say that he got good at justice.

Julie: You know, put it a little unfair how good he was at everything else.

J.R.: Sure. Yeah. I can, interesting how that's the thing that you, the how you connected the dots is like, well that's unfair. He is just good at everything. Why can't we all just be, or why can't I be good at everything? I get that.

Julie: Yeah. Like, and he has a passion on top of the thing he's already just like,

J.R.: And he has the ability to execute on that passion, which is to execute other people passionately.

Julie: Oh, but he had time to do the death note outside of work and school, you know?

J.R.: Yeah. But being like the top student. Yeah. But yeah, I like that. But did [02:25:00] that, I don't know did my, did my rambling make sense or did it answer like what you're asking?

Julie: Yeah, for sure. I think if anything, your explanation. Well, you know, I, the rev reverse engineering made sense and all boils down to just your ability to be successful is rooted in what you're good at and love. Both of those have to exist. And I was gonna say a third thing, but I forgot what it was.

J.R.: Oh yeah. Well, sometimes, let's say the thing that we're good at and that.

That we're good at and we're passionate about does not pay the bills. And that's the, that's the counter argument, right? Like, I love painting, but I'm not gonna be Van Gogh or whatever.

I would still question that, maybe I'm just a delusional optimist, but I feel like there are people who get paid really well, especially in the internet age and the AI age get paid really well or can get paid really well based on even those sort of niche things.

 But I think your success rate still goes up if you pursue things that you genuinely like doing for [02:26:00] the adventure, for the process, and not just for the outcome. 

And by nature you will get good at it. It might not be the end all be all, but I don't think you would regret that journey, getting good at something you enjoyed doing. So it's like a win-win.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. And and maybe you would have to shift one of your values, which is making money, you know? Sure.

Because you're already happy. Why do you need as much money? I don't know. It's true. It, it's just, it's just you said something that kind of cropped up in this I don't know. They're calling contemporary romance these days, but I call it chick lit, chick like literature for chicks. But I see it's an outdated term.

But the character in that book, she was I guess she's like a poor grad student, but she knows she's getting her master's in writing, fictional writing, and she knows that it's not gonna make a lot of money. However, she values having a stable income.

So that's why she's choosing to use that instead of writing [02:27:00] books, she's going to become a professor so that she could teach people. But then that person asked her like, well, are you gonna be able to make a lot of money being a professor? She's like, no, however, I'm gonna be happy. And so I don't need to live above my means. I'm gonna be able to do something I love and I'll have an income and that will sustain me.

So that's kind of what I thought about when you were talking about those. Yeah, that trifecta.

J.R.: I love that example. And hopefully that's a good takeaway for everyone else because I think that's important.

Financial security is important, and having money to sustain ourself is important. But just like what that character is saying is if you can adjust your desires and needs in this capitalistic consumer society to be what you need, you could have a higher quality of life at a lower expense if you, if you frame your values and the way you focus on the right way.

And one of my guests who we're talking about this, who is like a professor.

There's two paths you can take. The risky, twitch streamer path and make a lot of money, or you can do the stable career [02:28:00] that maybe it's not as exciting and whatever. And then from there, once you get to that point of like stable income and or investments or whatever, then you can do all your hobbies for free or for fun.

And I subscribed to that, obviously that's how my career panned out. I was transparently focused on making money because that's what I, I knew I needed financial security so that after I kind of hit a threshold, then I can do all of my hobbies for fun and for free. And I don't need to worry about that because I do want happiness.

But it's not like I pursued the most lucrative thing. Like I would've gone to law school if I was trying to pursue the most lucrative thing. But I knew that trade off of stress and heart and health related issues was not worth it. And even if I'm naturally inclined to be a good lawyer, it says my brain right?

Even if I think I'm good at that. It doesn't mean that it's worth the trade off. And so I'm like, okay, let me figure out different ways to make money, be creative and open and start learning and growing. And so I'm fortunate enough that now my career has panned out that I have the financial security and I feel confident in my ability to make money in the marketplace.

And I can travel as much as I want. It's not a crazy amount. And I can do all my hobbies [02:29:00] also not a crazy amount. I can be generous. Not a crazy amount, but enough that I want.

And so I did take that safer path and I was focused on making money, but also understanding how money works.

Again I'm pitching my whole financial coaching sort of thing.

But making a career and being good with money are two separate things. People think that in order to have a good financial situation, you need a great career. That is definitely not the case. You can have a great financial situation with not an amazingly high paying career. It's just that people think that those two are equated.

It does help to have a high paying career, obviously, 'cause you get more cushion, but if you don't know what to do with that money, you are a lost cause anyways. You're gonna be a sinking ship because you can't plug up the holes because you're not good with finance.

 I'm passionate about personal finance coaching is because no matter what your income level, you can still have a solid financial future and foundation. And you can simultaneously work on your career so that you can always make more money and increase that.

But you do need both skill sets, but they're completely different.

I'm so glad we got the opportunity to talk about your coaching.

Yeah. Shamelessly plugging [02:30:00] everything. Okay, guys. It wasn't on purpose, okay?

If you sign up now, it'll be super discounted. That's what I'm saying, because as I'm paying this VA agency to help me build it out, my services will get more expensive guys. So you guys better jump while the stocks are low. It's right now, no, it is a deal. Honestly I charge pennies to my friends for all this coaching and they're getting results. So.

Julie: I didn't know that you wanted to go to law school before.

J.R.: I mean, I was poli sci, so it was like, that was the thing.

And when I was a kid, I always argue with my aunts and uncles, and they were like, "J.R. you should be a lawyer because you're always arguing." And I'm like, just because you're wrong and I'm right does not mean I should be a lawyer. That is. So that was me as a kid. And then I worked with, and then I worked with lawyers and I'm like, oh yeah, I could probably good at this.

I have the right personality for it. But they were like, if you don't, live and die and breathe law and you don't wanna go to an Ivy league school or like a, you know, one of the top whatever, don't do it. And I'm like, okay, easy. I wanna do it. Let's pivot. Let's do something else.

Let's be, let's be an entrepreneur or something like that. Or I don't [02:31:00] know.

Julie: I'm I just started this Korean drama called Phantom Lawyer. Okay. Where this lawyer, he is a really altruistic person, you know, but he can't get into a major firm because he's been like red listed or blacklisted, I don't know what the term is.

I guess both could work. So, he ends up being able to see the supernatural ghost. And so he's starting to do be their legal counsel. So, for ghosts, yeah, for ghosts. Do they have ghost money or how does this work? It's just because he got swindled into starting his own law firm, or, I mean, no, he wanted to start a law firm, but the person had scammed him into the office is actually, that used to be a shaman's office.

So he's not unaware that this is a highly spiritual like supernatural zone. So he thinks oh, this is my new law firm, but then there's a bunch of these, this [02:32:00] spiritual energy, and so he keeps running into ghosts and they're like, well, we need help, you know, and he is like, well, I'm a really altruistic person I'll help you.

So it's really what is it? It, it's really good so far.

J.R.: That sounds interesting. Wait, so I know he is doing it altruistically, but he's not it's not a business, right? Like he's not, like they're not paying him 'cause they're ghosts.

Julie: No, he's not getting paid, but I think like he, this is giving him a good street cred so that later on it will be well, he's winning case.

Okay. Well actually the reason it works is because he's helping him with their cases. These cases happen to be active, like lawsuits. Oh, going on. Oh, so let's just, but they're dead. Yeah, they're dead. So he's digging, getting to the bottom of these active cases right now. So I think that if he wins these cases, then he just builds a reputation and whoever blacklisted him will be like, oh, well, you know, I was wrong.

This guy really is a good lawyer and we were so wrong [02:33:00] for shunning him. So that's how I think you know, we could have a, we love a good justice plot, so.

J.R.: Yeah. Well he's, so, he's active cases, but he's also helping and consulting these like ghosts or dead people or something like that.

Who are affected or are who were major players. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Yeah. I was just curious. And like, how does that He can't, they can't pay them, pay him ghost money. Like Oh, okay. But it's like active cases. I think he is getting paid in in, in reputation. I don't think he's getting paid money.

Oh, oh, okay. Okay. So he's still not even making money, but like at least he's winning cases. He's getting the, he's getting the Ws.

Julie: Yeah. He's. Testimonials.

J.R.: Hey. Like, that's what I'm doing. I guess I'm just getting testimonials not getting paid.

Julie: Yeah. But he won, he won these cases, so nice. Actually, yeah, but to be realistic I will have to see how he is sustained himself after several cases. 'Cause I'm like, you're not making money still, so, right. Yeah. We'll have to see where this goes [02:34:00] for him in a very practical manner.

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, it was called Phantom Lawyer. Yeah. Okay. Where do you watch it on Netflix? I'm still subscribed. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. I'm just asking so I can link it for people who are interested. They can be like, check it out.

Anything else? We've been on this for a call for two hours and almost 50 minutes. It's been such a good conversation.

For those of you guys don't know, Julie and I can literally talk for hours. We have historically, so it's always, I always enjoy talking with you, but did you have any other topics you wanna before we kind of wind up?

Julie: Oh, nothing at this time. But there could always be more, but nothing right now. Of course.

J.R.: Yeah, of course, of course. Cool. Okay. All right then. Let's wrap it up then. I'll do any questions. I mean, it's like very informal, but I don't know, Julie, if anything changed. What are you grateful for?

Julie: Oh, what am I grateful for? Being alive. 

J.R.: That's a, we always end with gratitude. Sorry, being alive. Yeah. Not being a ghost who needs a legal counsel.

Julie: Yes, [02:35:00] exactly. I don't know what it is, but lately I've just been so much more aware of my mortality. So every day that I am just like healthy living, breathing and able to enjoy and do things without being sick.

I don't know why. I am always anxious about it, but I'm like, thank goodness for today. Yeah.

J.R.: Yeah. I love that. It's like double-edged sword, right? It's like, I'm sure anxiety, but also gratitude.

Do you have a final ask from the audience or any final takeaways you'd like them to have from this very random, wide ranging conversation?

Julie: I know, I know we, we talked about a lot. I'm sure a lot of it needs to be trimmed down too, so.

J.R.: Who knows? Maybe I, maybe I'll just throw this up raw, like just uncut because it was, I liked it, it was good.

Julie: Yeah. If there's something that was of value or inspirational to our audience members, I'd really be curious to know if there's anything that they really liked hearing or made them laugh.

J.R.: Mm, yeah. That's a good, that's a good ask [02:36:00] actually. So yeah, if you get this far, wherever you listening to this yeah, leave us like, leave us comments and feedback. If you guys want us to talk about anything specific for next time, random show topics, things you wanna hear about from Julie specifically. These are always fun.

Okay. Last, last question. Where can we find you if the audience wants to check out what you're up to or connect?

Julie: Ooh. I mean, I mean, my official website for work and things is designed by julie.com, but I have been wanting to get back into blogging just because I don't know, I miss the things I did as a kid and having a blog and was it slow cataloging my experiences instead of just posting pictures of Instagram, I actually want to post it up and write about the thing I ate or not ate.

So, yeah, so I'm still trying to figure out what platform to do my blog on, but I'll let you know before you post this thing, what it is, what the link is. Okay.

J.R.: Yeah, let me know. Sorry, just to dig in. Now my, my technical brain is [02:37:00] like turning, so it's to post what you ate or what is it?

What would this blog look like? How do you envision it?

Julie: Well right now yeah it's, it's food. 'cause I, I think I spend a lot of time eating out in Orange County, just as foodies are. That's probably why I thought of it. And I wanted, yeah, people did used to do this a lot where they'll post oh, this is what I did at the restaurant.

This is like pre Yelp, I feel like. So, I think I would post more of common things people do. Like travel, which I don't do a whole lot of, so that would be fine. I'm not trying to be, have a travel blog. I think it's just, it's a hybrid of my journal, but not too personal. I think that's why I never had a public journal because I didn't want to leave too much of a personal imprint on the internet for people to know.

But I think I just, I wanted to have something to say to write about in a really innocent way.

J.R.: [02:38:00] Hmm. Would like an Instagram page, check that box? 'cause you could blog and post about those things, but I know it's a different format.

Julie: One page. No, just because I don't read captions on Instagram anymore because I think for a platform like that, sometimes people have started posting captions that are so, so long.

I think it takes away from the visual, which is what. The platform is supposed to be for. And so I think there's just two competing things. So, that's why I'm always yours.

J.R.: You want, you want yours to be more text-based and not really image-based.

Julie: Yeah, because I believe that's, to me, blogging is supposed to be more about just writing.

So I think that's why it's the perfect medium because someone who wants to just flip through things visually. I think that's what Instagram's strength is. But with blogging like Medium or substack, like you're really there just to read. I mean, yeah, there's some visuals, but I don't think that's what it's for, is for writers. So not that [02:39:00] I'm a great writer or anything but.

It's, I think it'll be my way of self-expression a little bit. Yeah. I see. I'm just late. I'm just late to the game. That's all. Like 20 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. And that's this, that would be a hit like 20 years ago. No, but no, I, I like that. I mean, I have a blog.

I, I kind of try to do similar things, but I can I see what you mean now. Based on what you explained on the vision of it, that yeah, a blog does make sense, just picking your platform. Right. I mean,

Julie: I didn't use to do it on Instagram. I still do, like when I cook and stuff, I'll post it on this other private Instagram account I have, but I only use that as a catalog.

It's not for me to talk through it, it's more of like, here's the damn thing I did. Like I can look at it and remember, but this one's for me just to reflect and just talk ad nauseum too. I don't know myself, it's really just for nostalgia. 'cause I used to do zenga a lot. So since it doesn't exist anymore, I think this is just purely for nostalgia's [02:40:00] sake.

J.R.: Mm. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Would you wanna build this blog into something where people visit, like you, have an audience or is it really just for cataloging?

Julie: Maybe. Maybe. Maybe, maybe I would like to have a small audience. Because I remember back then there were blogs that I would read of this one person who was just baking all of the time.

And it was kind of neat to see her journey. You know, she doesn't update it anymore because that's when social media started coming into the scene. But yeah, if somehow there's just like a random person in Finland who just came across my blog and said something, I'd be like, that's so cool. But yeah, I mean there's so many platforms out there where you could reach other people like Substack, but those people are, I think they are quite professionally writers.

So I'm not a professional writer, so I don't think Substack is the right platform for me. I think Substack is like, influencers, but [02:41:00] they're writers. I, I think that's what it's for.

Yeah. I guess I could have made a private journal.

J.R.: Yeah. I mean there's a wealth of like platforms out there that you could blog on or turn into a blog. Yeah, I've never been on Substack, but I've heard about a lot because of influencer journalist type people and that's like a professional sort of thing, but I've never been on it.

When you're mentioning like the blog thing, 'cause it reminds me of, in college, I used to follow various bloggers here and there, but one of 'em was Mark Manson, he is an author. Oh. And I still, yeah, like the subtle art of not giving an f.

And so I remember in college, or maybe high school, I think maybe more mostly college, that I would read a bunch of these and I'm like, oh, this is fantastic. And that's why I started my blog and where I had friends who started blogs, I'm like, I wanna do that because I love reading this stuff. And it's so engaging and it's so thought provoking and it's like quality content.

I think that era of like where the intention is, is. In my opinion, long gone. Obviously it's still alive and obviously there are still writers, but it was that era of oh yeah, blogs, premium space. And then it's you know, these [02:42:00] people build their careers on blogs and those people transition to other mediums and stuff like that.

But I thought that was so cool because I had that same dream too. I'm like, Hmm, maybe I should be a blogger one day because I do. I would have a Tumblr too and just write out these long things. And people actually responded well to them. Like, oh, I really like this post that you had. I'm like, oh, that's something here.

So I guess I still kind of do that. So I guess it kind of fulfilled the prophecy and just in different mediums. But I remember that as you brought it up, I'm like, oh, that's awesome. Was one of the dreams I had to.

Julie: Do you ever, do you get strangers who read your annual recaps on your main blog?

J.R.: Yeah. I think most people who read my blog are strangers. Which is kind of, which is kind of funny. Yeah. Real people. Like, I have no, no, honestly, they do, because 95% of the traffic that goes from my website are just random people who Google search and they see my book summaries. But then they'll subscribe to my website and my email list, and then they'll see all this other stuff, right.

They'll see my yearly posts, but they'll also see my podcast summaries and my other sort of distilling of thoughts. [02:43:00] And so they react and respond to it. 'cause they're also following me. So I'm like I don't know how many people, like maybe a couple hundred, few hundred, several hundred people who like read I, I don't know if they read, but they subscribe to everything and so they see it.

And so I know by the numbers and the stats, I'm like, yeah, I'll see a jump from my friends. But otherwise, most of my readers are just internet people who still follow me, I guess.

Julie: That's cool.

J.R.: I'm kind of talking to the ether of random people and so I do keep that in mind. I'm like, yeah, I guess my friends will read some of these things, but I know it's gonna be mostly people I don't know.

Yeah. Which is fine with me.

Julie: Oh, okay. Oh, I guess I thought of it a bit in reverse, but that would make sense. You would know.

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. You would expect, but my friends don't care what I write. They're like, whatever. It's the random people who I cherish because they actually follow my, my work and they appreciate the stuff I put out.

Yeah. Unless people are featured in my blog, they don't really read it.

Julie: Oh. I would definitely make a point to visit it [02:44:00] later. I'm really curious what it's been up to. So.

J.R.: Yeah, that's the, that's the fun part about having my yearly review is like if I don't see a friend for a while, they can check that out and have a good snapshot of my whole year and my mindset on everything.

Yeah. It's pretty good.

Julie: Like, have you seen JR? Mm-hmm. Dude, you need to visit my blog.

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. Copy paste. See this, see this link. You'll, you'll have all the updates you need. Yeah. Yeah. That's my way of trying to stay connected, I guess to people.

Julie: Yeah, that's true man. That's true. Why don't I just make my journal just private?

I don't know. I guess a part of me just wants to connect with someone out there that I don't know and see if we resonate.

J.R.: Yeah, no, I don't doubt that. You probably will find those people if you do that.

Actually, weird story before we wrap up and now we're going longer again, but I did meet up with someone who I followed, 'cause we both did book summaries. And so like we still keep in touch, but we were both doing the same things and then we kind of [02:45:00] comment on each other's posts and then we kind of talk about what we're doing for, to build our blog because we're doing similar stuff.

And then one day eventually, like we met up in person, he's like, oh, I'm gonna be in your area. I'm like, oh cool, let's meet up. And so I met his wife and his kid and he was cool and stuff like that. And he still engages with some of my posts. And that was like right before Blessie and I, our like account started blowing up.

And so I started doing less books, blog stuff and more of that. And he is like, oh, that's so cool. I see all your stuff blowing up. And so funny story and it did turn out well for that. But just a proof of concept that I do meet people from the internet sometimes.

Julie: Man. How did you make sure you didn't meet any stalkers or creepy, unwanted attention? Because you know, you're so visible in the public space. You are sure to attract someone who wants to meet you or find you wherever you frequent. Like, did either one that happened to you, or two, were you able to protect yourself from being in that situation?

J.R.: So I think that's definitely a [02:46:00] real thing when blessing and I were like, at our peak of social media, TikTok, stardom, quote unquote because we would meet people randomly out in public.

But I mean, our experiences have been like almost a hundred percent. Like, great. Like people will see us ask for photos, like chat with us a little bit. And it's been fine like that, but I know that there is a non-zero risk that there could be that sort of thing. Thankfully nothing has happened like that.

And I think obviously bigger influencers or celebrities will deal with that more. So I don't know.

I'm also not an attractive girl, so I do have less of a risk of that.

Julie: My brain, I was like, should I say it? I don't know.

J.R.: Yeah. I'm not an attractive girl and I'm not even a very attractive guy by my own standards, so I'm not gonna get that much attention in public.

I'm just like the, I joke about this all the time, but I told my one friend who is, for the most part, he's more good looking attractive, and he has what's it called? He's good with the ladies, let's just say that. Right? But he also has problems, his own problems with those dynamics. And so I'm like, look, [02:47:00] dudes, like you can just show up in a room and just pull girls.

Me. I gotta work on my personality, my career, my humor, my finances. I have to work out four times a week in order to just pull one girl and keep her. Whereas guys like, you can just show up and just like, have as many girls as he wants. So, and then say we're laughing about that now. He's like, oh, I feel like you're, I feel like you're not joking with that.

I'm like, yeah. I mean, look, I'm joking. I am joking, but I'm not lying. Like it is true. I do have to work harder to get my results. And that's fine. I guess personal development. Woo-hoo. But, but so yeah, I'm joking, but it's also true.

Julie: You crack me up J.R.

J.R.: Thank you. See, I told you it's just the comedy that I'm gonna lean on when we have our apocalypse and AI takes over.

Julie: I know, I know. People will remember there, there your laugh. That's the last thing they do.

J.R.: Hope so. Okay. All right, Julie. So now, finally, finally wrap it up. We've been at three hours. I think this is my longest conversation now. Congrats. But [02:48:00] also not surprising 'cause I do enjoy talking with you.

Hopefully you feel the same.

Julie: Thank you. Likewise.

J.R.: Yeah. Okay, so let's wrap this up. I think you've had your final words. I don't wanna cut you off or do you have any final words before I sign off? No, don't. No. Okay. Cool. All right. Yeah they've heard us talking and there's probably no one listening at this point. This is too long.

But all right. I'll do my final sign off, or I'll say thank you, Julie, for being here. I really appreciate it. I always love and enjoy talking with you. We can obviously go for hours for good reason, and I'm grateful to be able to have a friend like you on this show where we can just talk and just the vibes.

And obviously like and respect and admire you as well for your accomplishments.

And it's always nice to pick our brains for these things. So that is for you.

For the audience. Thank you guys for listening. Whoever's still listening to this, be sure to like, follow us, subscribe, all that fun stuff. Leave us five stars wherever you're listening to. Leave us Love in the comments, specifically Julie.

And reminder to always be kind to other people, especially yourself. And remember that you can always learn something from someone if you take [02:49:00] the time to listen.

So thank you guys for being here. Thank you, J.R.