J.R.: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus, where we share stories and lessons from people of all walks of life with me, your host, J.R. Yonocruz.

Today's guest is Aeden Fam for a special random show episode. This is actually Aeden Pham's fourth episode on the show. Another fun random show with one of our favorite repeat guests.

It's always nice to have him on the show just to catch up with life updates and chat about our recent musings and what we've been pondering. After we get some of his recent personal reflections, we discuss topics such as self-care, indulgence, people who say things that they don't mean, the phantom cost of buying, things that take up space. Our reflections on our spending habits.

I love recording, very chill and relaxed conversations like this, and hopefully you guys will enjoy listening and maybe gain some insights along the way for yourself. At the very least, these there are also good topics to reflect on in your own life.

So without further ado, please enjoy this random show episode with Aeden Pham.

Hello, and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus. Aeden, welcome back to the show. 

Aeden: [00:01:00] Yay. Welcome back. Me. Thank you for having me. 

J.R.: Applause, applause. Yeah, thanks for being here. So as we discussed off camera, as of right now, if this episode is successfully published, you'll currently be in first place for the most episodes recorded on the show.

So you are first place with four? Yeah, we have a couple people who are at three, but you're the only person at four so far. So congrats. We'll see how long that lasts. Cool, 

Aeden: cool, cool. We love first place. 

J.R.: I know. 

Oh, also Yen. Actually, I think there are, before today there were like four people who had three, I think It'ss like my friend, ZY Yen, Julie. And then I think my friend Alex Hung, I think, you know, hung, right? 

Aeden: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: So I think he's about to have three, I think, 'cause he's scheduled.

But anyway, so yeah, there three is a magic number. I feel like anyone who goes more than that, I think there's some special sauce there. There's probably, I probably like you if, if that's the case. 

Aeden: Thank [00:02:00] goodness I was afraid for a second. 

J.R.: I know. Because one, it's like, all right, two could be a fluke. Three is like, mm.

Okay. I think there's a patterns going on here. I think there's an element of, I think I like you as a person. Yeah. 'cause there's only so much selling out I can do if it's oh no, it's just clout. Obviously I don't have people on just for clout or even as it as a big factor anyways.

It's more just I think you have something good to say. I think you speak really well, you have good reflections and I like you. And if you are solid in all those three things, I'll invite you back for a third time. But yeah, anyways, that's enough affirmations. So our last recording was August 4th, so we will do like A-T-L-D-R catchup with what Aeden Pham has been up to since then.

So what have you been up to since then? 

Aeden: As per our previous discussions, I've made a lot of time for myself by taking a step back from working as much. So with that, I've been able to watch a lot more movies, a lot of more TV shows, read some books, play some games. I posted I think a couple, two or [00:03:00] three board game nights already, so it's a great success in that department.

I've also been able to expand out into my social life, so I've been making more friends and potentially looking at some dating in the future. Yay. 

J.R.: Oh, juicy, 

Aeden: yummy. 

J.R.: Yeah. Nice. Cool. Going back into, there was a few things that I wanted to touch on if you had some, if you wanted to go deeper on these ones.

So the therapy and any reflections that you've learned. I know the dating thing we just mentioned and music and dance. Just to tease that out, like you mentioned relaxation as the new sort of key, like, linchpin of things that connect those things to improve or advance those endeavors.

Which one do you wanna go into first? 

Aeden: We can definitely start with the music, dance, relaxation one. I think that'll branch out into everything else. 

J.R.: Yeah. So then you mentioned that you [00:04:00] started to, you picked up the guitar 

Aeden: mm-hmm. 

J.R.: And that's improved your sort of relationship or growth journey in singing and being in the studio where you train at.

So then how has Relaxation played a role in this? 

Aeden: It started with talking to my vocal coach about how I feel about singing or how I feel when I'm adjusting my singing to different technique or different ways that I wanted to express myself through music. And one thing I realized that as a, like type A, like Capricorn, very detail oriented type person, I wanted to control everything.

So the desire to have control over all these things or have a tight grip on them was causing me to not only psychologically, but physically also stiffen. And that just made everything much more difficult. And so he impressed upon me the importance of relaxation, [00:05:00] of caring about something and at the same time being flexible and adaptable through it.

And so. Because of that, I decided to pick up guitar. So now I've had two lessons with the guitar. And the amount that I've been able to learn in these two lessons have been so much more than what I've learned with vocal technique for, I don't know, like the past six months. Right. And part of it is because I came in with no expectations no pressure.

I very recognizably knew that I have no experience. And so anything with guitar was new and is, it's as expected with anything new, there's going to be a high learning curve. So I was like, you know what, if I suck, that's totally okay. That's expected. That's like the baseline. And because of that, I think I was more open to making corrections, adapting [00:06:00] quickly, learning, absorbing information that was new and foreign to me.

And it's been noted by other folks in the studio that. I have been progressing with guitar, even in Jesse's two lessons much quicker than anyone has anticipated. And so with that, I've been trying to transfer that mindset into dance as well.

And like as a dancer, I'm always like, oh man I wanna level up. I wanna do better. I wanna look good. I want to impress the directors. I want people to realize that I can do this. And especially as someone on leadership for the team, I felt an additional pressure of as someone on leadership, I should show the people that I am capable not just in the work, but in dance.

And the challenge for me since then has been to find a way to still relax through it. To show up to rehearsals and say you know, I might struggle with this choreography. I might have a hard time, but how can I find pathways to relax so that my mind can better adapt and retain what I'm trying to learn?

J.R.: [00:07:00] That makes a lot of sense. So then how have you felt that it's, are there any concrete examples of okay, yeah, I've been more relaxed and retaining or performing or learning choreography or performing choreography has been a lot better? 

Aeden: I can't fully say with confidence that I think I'm doing better, but I will say that, for example, starting off this season, I kept reminding myself like, Hey, I, I recognize that I'm becoming stiff, that my shoulders are becoming tense, that I'm stressing about learning this choreography.

And I intentionally remind myself like, we are here because we love dance. We are here to have fun. So how can I pivot my mindset in this learning environment to have fun, to connect to the people around me to build community? And in doing so, I felt less stressed through it. And you know, at the end of the night we performed the choreography and I was like, you know what?

I definitely made [00:08:00] mistakes, but can I improve on the next one run? And if that was the last run, can I improve on the next day? What am I taking away from this experience, through this relaxation so that I can actually grow and improve rather than stress about growing and improving? And I received good feedback from the choreographer to say oh, hey dude, like that's probably the best.

I've seen you dance in a while. And so that was positive reinforcement for me in that my implementation of my practice to better implement relaxation is a productive one. 

J.R.: That makes sense. At the very least, you're less stressed out about it and by 

Aeden: mm-hmm. 

J.R.: By that notion, you'll probably enjoy practice more.

And you know, I have no doubt that when you are less stressed and you enjoy something more, you probably will perform better, if not immediately, but in the long term. Right. So I guess that makes a lot of sense. 

Aeden: Yeah. It feels, 

J.R.: that's awesome. 

Aeden: Obvious and intuitive, but I definitely think it's something that I've neglected a lot.

J.R.: Yeah. 

Aeden: Like my vocal coach says children learn by playing. And as adults we [00:09:00] forget how to play. And I think that this is my process of rediscovering what play is. 

J.R.: Yeah, definitely. I feel like to the point you just made, even though it might be obvious and intuitive, a lot of times I feel like as adults as where we're at now, we have to be intentional with.

Getting back or going to a place as opposed to being reactive and just being like, yeah, life is supposed to be shoulders up and tense and just stressed out all the time. Right. Sometimes we do have to intentionally push the other direction. So I totally get that.

I wanna ask about the relationship stuff. 'cause I feel like that's also just as juicy. One phrase that you mentioned that I really liked as a jumping on point is managing eagerness. Mm-hmm. So can you take us through this whole topic with that?

Aeden: Yeah. I have not dated a lot and especially over the past couple years because I've been so focused on work, I have not made a lot of new friends. And so I find that now that I have time to go out and meet new people, potentially find interest and start dating, there is this eagerness in me to want to jump [00:10:00] on like any opportunity. People, right? So if we 

J.R.: love jumping on people 

Aeden: Yeah. With consent and you really test out their strength, you know, can you carry me? But yeah. I found that I have this tendency where I'll like hint at an interest and that I see reciprocation, then I just slam my foot on the accelerator.

And that I have found is a quick way to turn someone off even if it comes through a friendship because it becomes too much, too fast. And so for me, it's now about understanding that yes, I am eager for this opportunity or I'm eager for connection. I want to make sure that this connection is genuine and not based out of this eagerness, or perhaps even like this insecurity of oh, I don't have friends and I really want a friend now. You know? 

J.R.: Desperation. 

Aeden: Yeah, desperation. Exactly. And so being able to relax, [00:11:00] you know, once again, everything is connected. Being able to relax and remind myself like, Hey, people are varying, and how well do I know this person to jump that quick? Right? Let's have some good conversations. Let's find natural ways for that to occur and give it space and time to breathe.

Because if it's able to do that, it's able to relax, it's able to adapt, and then we can move it from there. 

J.R.: Yeah. When we last talked about this, the last time we hung out 

Aeden: mm-hmm. 

J.R.: I've been thinking about how, you know, as kids, we're the opposite of overthinking. We kind of just, you make friends on the playground, you just talk to them.

You're just out, Hey, wanna play this? Oh my God, you like firetruck, whatever. And it's so cool. I don't know. I guess maybe I admire people who are like that, obviously, like the child, the childlike or like how children are, or how kids are, they can just be unapologetically themselves, be authentic, and then just make friends and connect.

Unfortunately, as adults, we both [00:12:00] know a lot of other adults can probably relate that that's not what life is like and that's not how adults and people are like, is, there's so much of this, like pretension and being something else and protecting yourself for good reason. I'm the same way. I'm very more protecting myself and not vulnerable and eager because we learn as we go through life that you get hurt when you do that because people will take advantage or they'll take you for granted or blah, blah, blah, x, y, and z.

And not to say that's the excuse or the reason, but moving past all that, it's. Sometimes I think of it would be so nice to just be kids in that sense as adults just be like authentic and straightforward with each other. And then you have those people who are saying, I wish people were just more authentic and open with their feelings.

And I'm like, that's a very sweet sentiment, but do you know how the real world works? Like people aren't like that. Like you can be that nice, genuine person and I, you know, praise you, but I feel sorry for you because you're gonna have a rough sort of dating life, friendship life given that you are not a super just hot, attractive person and just bubbly personality that [00:13:00] people just love.

But even in that sense, sorry, I'm just kinda going off in 10 different directions, even that sense you probably get taken advantage of or just people like for the wrong reasons, but whatever. But I think either way it's like hard because the way these social dynamics are, it's incentivized to protect ourselves and to be fake.

And so as much as you can say, I want people to just be honest, like no, because if they were honest, you'd also be, you would also run the other direction because you're like, this person's too much, too fast, or they're too genuine. And then it would be red flags in your brain, right?

Aeden: Yeah I agree.

And I also think that on the receiving end of that, my instinct is to question the intention of the speed or like the desire for that level of familiarity. And so that's something that I'm trying to introspect on my end as well, is like if someone approaches me, but they're not someone that I immediately click with or immediately think of as someone that I would be friends with or even pursue an interest with, then what is my hesitation from engaging with this person genuinely?

Like what am I protecting? And [00:14:00] I think that's also revealed to me like a level of. Shallowness that I find and dislike in myself, and now it presents me with an opportunity to address it head on, right? If someone approaches me and tries to have a conversation and I was like, okay, I'm not really into this, but like that doesn't mean we can't have a genuine connection still.

That doesn't mean I still can't be kind. And so exploring that I think has been an interesting exercise. 

J.R.: That's true. I like that too. It's like even if the person, you guys don't vibe immediately because of whatever reason, you can still be kind to people. 

Aeden: Yeah, 

J.R.: and I do think that's an important piece that regardless of us interacting in this society and societal norms, we can still be kind to each other and not necessarily be completely like turn off or big like a wall in front of us, or just shut them down.

It's like you could be kinder, but you know, I get that sometimes that's not always easy and the circumstance is complicated. 

Aeden: Yeah. I will say I, I think that [00:15:00] also stems from a little bit of selfishness on my part. In that I'll approach someone that I have interest in, right. And I'm trying to be open and get to know them.

And it's okay if I'm not your type though. I wish you were like nicer with the way that you approached me or like kinder with the way that we interact or even if we're in like a group setting. Like it doesn't need to be cold. It doesn't need to be cruel. And so now I'm reflecting on that in that I wonder if I behave this way to other people.

And so I'm now trying to be extra aware of my engagement with people that don't immediately click as someone that I would want to pursue an interest with.

It's just a lot of new internal dialogue or reflections for me since I have spent a number of years just focusing on work. So it's tricky. Minefield. 

J.R.: Right, right. Yeah. You're just in that era right now, [00:16:00] right? 

Aeden: Yeah. I feel like I'm discovering my teenage years.

J.R.: Yeah. I'm happy for you, man. I think it's like you've, you worked hard and you know, you got into a good place in your career. And this as a more macro observation, I feel like a lot of people our age, our generation, it's all about the focus on the career and the self and for good reason, the economy and wanting financial stability.

But I think at some point we need to start pushing back in the other direction of taking back our life and then actually enjoying our life and not just putting off our life until we're retired. Right? Yeah. So that's exciting, even though it's gonna be confusing and teenage again for you. 

Aeden: Yeah.

J.R.: We'll see. Hopefully the pool is gonna be a lot better than when you were younger and just you know, 

Aeden: you know, I have hope, I have faith. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Okay. Anything on, reflections from therapy. I know all these things might be related, the whole relaxing and the whole opening yourself up into dating and whatnot.

But anything else on that piece? 

Aeden: There was a period of time when my [00:17:00] therapist was like, really pushing compassion, compassion, compassion. And I was like, okay. Sure.

J.R.: In what context? Like compassion because you're just so like sociopathic or like what? What do you mean?

Aeden: I think it usually derives out of conversations when I complain to her about how I feel that sometimes people will say a thing and then do the opposite and then, 

J.R.: well, you don't love that. 

Aeden: Oh my god. 

J.R.: I love when people say and do different things. 

Aeden: Oh man. It just grinds my gears. And I think I'm very intentional about trying to weed out that, that kind of hypocrisy in myself, or at least like a pass passive hypocrisy.

Yeah. So I get really frustrated and her recommendation is I see that you're having like a strong emotional response to this. You know, we've already understood that this ties to past trauma that you've had in your childhood and in family relationships, but what can we do [00:18:00] now so that you don't go through this cycle of like frustration and anger and sadness.

And her response was, you know, we can have compassion for people like they're behaving this way for a reason. Right? You behave this way for a reason. And so if we sit in compassion with them and move through it in that way. We may be able to let these experiences flow off of us a little bit more elegantly or more gracefully, and I was like, Uhhuh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I get it. You have trauma. That's why there's therapy. Go to find a therapist, you know? She always gets a good chuckle out of that one. I was like, listen girl, like if you can get a larger clientele list and have more work and make more money, I'd love that for you. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm.

You're like, look, I got a lot of referrals of people who I think should be seeing you. 

Aeden: Yeah. I was just like I send everyone to you. Well, not everyone, there's some people I try to keep just because I was like, she's my therapist don't break. 

J.R.: Right, of course. Yeah. You're like, at the same time, I want you to do [00:19:00] well, but I don't want to send some of these people to you 'cause I don't want you to get broken.

Aeden: Yeah, exactly. I was like, I want you to make money, but I also want you in a good enough condition to still be around for me.

J.R.: Yeah. so it's understanding why people are the way they are. 

Aeden: Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: But part of you is still like, yeah, sure. Compassion, trauma, whatever, but also I want you to fix your problems because you are inconveniencing me.

Yeah. 

Aeden: Yeah. And I think that's like the recurring discussion right now with my therapist and myself. It's like the whole goal of a lot of our conversation was to get me to feel my emotions as a Capricorn, as a type A person, as like a very meticulous, trauma dumped person. My goal has always been to like, organize my emotions and then tuck them away so that I can slowly handle them in bite-sized pieces.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Aeden: But she has been challenging me to actually just take on the emotion when they occur, and finding more graceful ways of being able to process them in the moment as well [00:20:00] as immediately after the moment. And as I go through this. I think it like pairs with my logic mind in that I'll understand why people behave a certain way or why they might behave a certain way and at the same time still want better for them because I want better for myself.

And I think that's like the challenge is like how do we go about that desire of better or like the want for better for everyone while also understanding that not everyone may want better for themselves. 

J.R.: Yep. All the things that you've just said are things that I not only agree with because we're an echo chamber, but also because I think the same way.

Um, Yeah. I feel like in some instances, or you can look at it this way, but Blessie is my therapist in a sense of, I always vent to her about people all the time.

Not everything I say is exactly how I feel. It's just what I feel in the moment. And since she knows how my brain works, it's like a friend does a thing and I think it's totally stupid. And I'm like, why the heck would you, this makes no [00:21:00] sense to me.

And then as I'm speaking it out and she's just listening, then I'll go back and be like, I understand why. And I can see the nuance and the context and everything like that. And I know that the reason why I am upset is because I'm just taking it personally. So now I have to, I don't know if I always say this, everything like this to her, but I know in my brain I reflect on it as okay, I know the root of this is that it's my high standards and like how I think things should be done.

And when people do things that make no sense to my brain, it kind of just bothers the heck out of me. And then I'm like, okay, well the fact that it's bothering me makes no sense. So now I need to learn how to just let it go because they can be all doing the wrong thing and being inefficient and non optimize all they want, it should not affect my emotions because I have no stake in that.

And it's just a, you know, it's just about my own, my reaction to it. And so, so I think it's been nice to be able to vent that, or even just put myself in the car. But it always comes back to okay, I'm being too judgmental. I need to stop taking it personally because it doesn't matter.

They can be [00:22:00] however defective they want. They're not my spouse and they're not my kids, which I would have more stake in. They're just people like friends or whatever. But that's a similar reflection, I guess. 

Aeden: Yeah, that's definitely a question my therapist has asked me before, which is like, why do you care?

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Aeden: You know, this is someone else's problem. Like why do you have to stick your hand in it? Why do you have to fix it? And I was like, just seeing the inefficiency pisses me off because everyone keeps saying oh, you know, I want the good things in life, or I think I'm a good person.

And then they do something that immediately contradicts that. And I was like, don't you want to say what you mean and be the thing that you think you are? My brain can't wrap itself around that sort of mental gymnastics. And that's frustrating for me. And so her follow up question is always like, how does this tie back to your childhood and family relationship?

J.R.: Ah, 

Aeden: It's like, where else have you seen this? And like, where do your high standards come from? And it's like, damn, hit me [00:23:00] hard. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. No, I can relate because I, yeah, I know exactly where my judgmental side comes from. I'm like, okay, yeah, I know where this is. I get it. I understand it. We're all trying to get there. We're trying to get better. 

All right. If that is all, I would like to move to our other random topics. Yeah. Just to keep it moving.

So the first one we'll go into order, I guess. So burnout versus indulgence.

And so we had talked about, we kind of brainstormed beforehand, but the catalyst for this was an idea that I had, and this was actually from my Bible study group. We were talking about burnout and how to handle that and self-care. So it was burnout and self-care essentially. And some people were making the, they were combining self-care with indulgence, but they were just labeling it as self-care. And even though I didn't say this in my brain, I was like, okay, wait, hold on. I think we need to separate those two things because they're different.

Self-care and indulging are not the same thing. They could be related and then you can use indulgence as a way to what you perceive as self-care. But obviously [00:24:00] in a previous episode I would talk about this, self-care is actually behavior that takes care of your long-term self is how I define it. It's mostly the health things, but it's things that your future self would thank you for doing.

And so therefore, eating a burger or ice cream feeling like shit afterwards is not what your future self wants you to do. And it's not gonna make them feel better. It's not taking care of your future self, right? That's what discipline is.

So I would categorize the whole, I had a tough day at work, now I deserve 10 scoops of ice cream as not self-care, but rather just indulgence as a way to decompress from your stressful day.

And so there's a lot of things to pick apart about that. But I think for me, the jumping off point is separating those two things 'cause they're not the same.

So what do you think? What are your thoughts? 

Aeden: I absolutely agree. I think that indulgence can be a nice temporary fix, like a quick solution to feel a little bit better.

But for me, true self care is hard work [00:25:00] and it's about being able to put yourself in a space. Space where you can recover from what caused you to burnout and then start looking for productive and effective ways to prevent it from occurring again. If you continually fall back into burnout, then no self-care was done because you're continually setting yourself up to be in a place that's a bad, bad, bad.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. So like your definition of self-care involves finding a solution to remove the problem. It's kinda like compassion is empathy plus solution, right? 

Aeden: Yeah. And you know, like you said before, it's, there's a discipline to it where it's not just about oh, I know what will solve this. It's about committing to the plan of solving it.

And I think this might be our PM brain talking a little bit, but you know, mapping out, road mapping, time lining out what is this solution? How do I plan to achieve it, and what contingencies do I have in place? If I should fail, when I should fail? Because, you know, implementations of new plans are never [00:26:00] 100.

J.R.: That makes sense. so I'll add on my perspective too is we talked about this in another episode, but I think the formula for burnout is doing something continuously for a long period of time or doing something without getting one feedback that what you're doing matters.

So those feedback loops, as we know in Agile, but also too, that you're going in the wrong direction. And it kind of goes to your point of aligning with your core values or what your vision for your life is. And if you're going towards that vision of like happy, healthy family and financial security so that you can have the freedom to spend time and do the fun stuff, then you have a clear direction, you know you're going in the right direction, but you're also getting the feedback loop of your boss, your environments, your coworkers or your customers or whatever is saying that, wow, what you're doing matters and is making my life better or improving the world, et cetera.

Because if you find yourself in those jobs where you don't have those feedback loops, you don't even know the day-to-day of how your job is important. For sure it's gonna add up to burnout. And the same thing with you find out that you're going in the wrong direction. Like you are meant [00:27:00] to go over here because you have a level of self-awareness, but your job is taking you in this direction.

Of course you're gonna get burned out. And so to your point, again, addressing either of those things could help.

But I think if you get that self-care element piece into that, which how I define it as more health and long-term related, I think it gives your engine a better chance of going through the stressful times. 

Aeden: Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: Because now your car is oiled and calibrated and maintained and so now you can go through what you need to go through in order to get your goal, which probably requires you going through the stress.

Aeden: Yeah. To extend off of that or to continue that thought. I think that's why understanding what your boundaries are is so important. Mm-hmm. This is, I feel like a little bit of a smaller example, but when I worked at a restaurant very happy to work any position, very happy to work anywhere in the restaurant, it's totally fine.

But there was one party that was extremely disrespectful to me. And after I had set them up, got them all their food and their drink, I told my manager that I would like to draw a boundary in continuing to serve this table because they have been so [00:28:00] disrespectful. And he had told me that Hey, it's your job.

You need to serve them. And I was like, okay. Just know that if that's the case, I'm violating a boundary that I'm setting because you're forcing me to, and that's going to make me want to leave here. And because of the way that I communicated with them and the way that I communicated with my coworkers.

We were able to make sure that I protected that boundary and that ensured that I felt comfortable enough to continue to work and stay and not quit. You know? So it's definitely an ever evolving journey to discover the nuances within my boundaries and determine which ones are more solidified, which ones are a little bit more porous, and then being able to negotiate that with others and with myself, I think. Mm-hmm. That's like trick and tricky business. 

J.R.: Yeah. I like that.

One more thought about this as I, as I think about indulgence, just to wrap it up, it's kind of like if your body and your mind is like a car and you're maintaining it through [00:29:00] self-care, actual self-care, when you lean into indulgences too much like the ice cream or the fast food or whatever, it's like instead of putting good oil or clean gas into your car, you put, I don't know, fucking matcha or a like milkshake into your gas tank, and you're like, no, that is not going to help your car run better or faster or more efficiently, or last a long time. You're actually just screwing over your car and your car's a thing that's gonna take you from A to B.

And so why would you lean on indulgences to get you through the tough times when you're burned out? That doesn't, that makes no sense. Yeah, go to the spa and turn off your mind, relax or figure out like problem solve like you're saying or something like that, but actually take care of your health and not 

Aeden: Yeah, 

J.R.: throw it away just because you think you need to wind out, like wind down or something.

Aeden: Yeah. And for me it's about the intention of the action too, right? So yes, go to the spa, but what are you going to the spa for, right? 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Aeden: I want for at [00:30:00] least myself, if I'm choosing to go to the spa, I want to know that Hey I'm taking this time, I'm setting it aside so that I can.

Take care of myself physically, or I can create some time for myself to reflect in a more relaxed environment. Oh, I want to use the time. 

J.R.: Some people just need to turn their brain off. 

Aeden: Yeah. 

J.R.: Because a lot of the stress is like, we're constantly jumping around and the whole meditation slash the way I see spa, not spa, like, oh, I'm getting a pedicure or whatever.

Yeah, 

Aeden: yeah. 

J.R.: I see it as okay, you're putting yourself in a space that actually isn't designed to make you relax and unplug. And so if you're just on your phone at the spa, you're not unplugging, are you? Yeah, 

Aeden: absolutely. 

J.R.: And also, if you're worrying at the spa, you're also not unplugging.

Mm-hmm. So yeah, I think to your point, you can go through the reflection and problem solve, but I think it's also valid to like literally turn off your brain and just be in the present moment and enjoy. I'm thinking of like a ha spa where I'm just like laying in the fucking thing. Right. Like the jinja.

Aeden: Yeah. I, 

J.R.: and so it's like, okay. I'm like, okay, I'm, my phone is not on. I'm not thinking about [00:31:00] anything else. I'm just in the moment. Yeah. This is actually a value add for my health because I should be more present rather than worrying about the future or depressed about the past. 

Aeden: Yeah. And that's absolutely valid with the intention of doing that, I think of course.

Yeah, exactly. Like I definitely had a friend who would just go to the spa and I was like, oh, are you trying to relax? I like, oh, I don't know. I'm gonna figure it out. And I was like, were you just at the spa trying to relax but not thinking about relaxing more about I don't know, like, how are you going about they, 

J.R.: they just did it, but they didn't know why, or like the intent behind it.

They're just like, I think that's what I should do. I 

Aeden: gotcha. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Aeden: Yeah. Once again, our vein of frustration with people who say things that they don't mean and do things that they, 

J.R.: That's the next topic. People who just say, shit, that's how I, that's how I labeled this. But as I was explaining to Aeden before this. This thought was from people who, okay, how do I get, how do I say this? There's a lot of context. People who say shit, just to say shit. And I think that an [00:32:00] example of this is like when you go into a social setting or friends or whatever, and they just say stuff because they think that's a socially acceptable thing to say, but I think it stems from them just trying to look good and or people please, because they think that's what they should say.

So for example, here's a random one. It's like a friend will be like, oh yeah, I just started a side hustle and I'm doing this, this, this. Or, oh, I'm going to do a bootcamp for coding because, you know, and so when I hear stuff like that. If I'm thinking, okay, I don't know if those are really the right things, but that's just my own judgment.

Mm-hmm. I can be like why would you wanna do that? Are you just saying that just because it, 'cause because you expect me and or the people around us like, oh, that's so cool. You are so great because you are doing a side hustle and you do so many things and oh, you're going to code. That's a great career.

Or you're going back to school for whatever, a grad program for MBA, wow, you are amazing. But then for me, my BS radar is always goes off for [00:33:00] those people because. I know from historical accounts and the data of what they've done and what they've achieved, yeah. You are not gonna do any of that shit like you are just saying it, just to say it.

It's different if I've seen you put in the work and I've seen you consistently deliver on what we're saying. That's different. I'm talking about the people that you know in your heart. That they're not gonna do any of that stuff. 'cause they always jump from things and just say stuff and never, and they say maybe they start, but they absolutely never finish.

And so that's where my gripe is. And I'm just like, my ask is just be honest with who you are. Have some self-reflection. Go to the spa and stuff. Reflect on who you are. And then actually still, like if you come to me as a friend or even as a random person and be like, honestly, I don't know what my career is going.

And I just played video games all day. I just scrolled social media. I dunno what the fuck I'm doing, but you know, let's just hang out.

I'll be like, fantastic. I fucking love you. Let's hang out because you know who you are. You're not bullshitting anyone. You're most importantly not bullshitting yourself and you're not bullshitting me.

And so I trust you and I respect you more. But I understand the other side of that [00:34:00] is that, most of society probably won't react the way I do. And I get that like they're going to judge you and they'll be like, who's this loser playing video games? And they have their careers not figured out. And then the girls that you try to approach or the people you're trying to date are be like, no, screw this person.

They're such low value. Whereas I get that.

And so yeah, maybe I'm in the minority of just accepting people as they are and I'd rather people have integrity and just speak their truth rather than bullshit, but 

Aeden: yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I have a lot of gripes about this as well. I talk to my therapist all the time and I'm like I want to know that your intentions align with what you say and or what you do. Because for me, right, if my intention is to make someone feel good, but I do something and they don't feel good, the next step is to recognize that and then now pivot my action to get the outcome that I wanted.

Right? And so I feel like we're definitely the minority because people will just say and do things without thinking. And that lack of self-awareness is really frustrating for me. And the my therapist's [00:35:00] question is like, why do you care about people's intentions? And I was like, because of course, yeah.

Words mean things, you know?

J.R.: I know. 

Aeden: Same. So whenever I'm in a situation where someone's like, oh, you code, that's cool. I was thinking about going into coding too, and I was like, okay, why? 

J.R.: Yeah. No, you don't 

Aeden: Yeah. I was just like, okay, let me know how the coding course goes because if it's good, maybe I'll try it.

You know, I don't know. 

J.R.: Yeah, 

Aeden: maybe I'll let someone else know if they wanna try it, but nothing ever 

J.R.: that reminds you of. Yeah maybe I talked to you about this before, but in college when people would be like, oh my God, teach me how to dance. And in my head I'm like, you don't wanna know how to dance because if you wanted to know how to dance, you would be dancing right now.

You don't need me to teach you. You're either just one saying shit just to say shit, or two, you think that's the right thing to say, or three, you're just like, I don't know, you're aspirational. And this is just how you go through life is just saying you wanna do some stuff, but you don't actually wanna do it.

Aeden: I think my younger self relates to that a little bit in that there are things I would like to do or like I'll see it and I was like, oh my God, that's cool. I would love to do that. Right. And then there with insecurity in this sphere that will lock me down and prevent me from starting [00:36:00] because if I'm not immediately perfect at anything, I don't wanna do it.

Of course. Very relatable, very understandable. But I have grown and my goal or my desire for everyone around me is like. You also grow, you know? Mm-hmm. Like I would love for people to say I used to be there, but now I'm at this place where I understand where I'm at and I'm okay with it. Or I understand that I have this insecurity and I'm working on it.

That's totally valid. I think one of the clearest examples of me getting into a fight with someone about this, which my therapist was, has told me was completely unnecessary. I do think it was like a good value assessment for myself. There was this discord that I was in and we were just on a voice call just talking, and this guy goes, oh my God, I'm so excited for Coachella.

I want to go to Coachella. And this was back when everyone was talking about how the owners of Coachella make a ton of money and then put it towards anti LGBT policy on a federal level. 

J.R.: Right, right. Yeah. 

Aeden: And so I brought that up and I was like, oh, you know that this is a [00:37:00] fact, right? And his response was, well, there's nowhere else for a group of like gay Asians to meet up.

And I was like. What are you talking about? We literally have so many spaces that we can meet up, like literally any other festival, any other concert. And honestly, if you already know people, you all can pitch in $5 and get a really nice 20 bedroom mansion in the middle of Kansas that's central for everybody and still have your good time together, guaranteed.

And his response was, well, why don't you organize that? You do it then. And I was like, but I'm not the one asking for more gaysian spaces. Mm-hmm. Like I'm okay not going to Coachella and I'm okay with you going to Coachella, but don't lie to me and give me these other reasons because that reason's not really valid.

Like you have other solutions. And he's like, okay, well what if I just want to go to Coachella? And I was like, that's perfect. That's perfectly fine. You can say Hey, I know the politics is shitty, but it is a good time. There's [00:38:00] no ethical consumption under capitalism. Right? So if someone wants to eat Chick-fil-A around me, I'm gonna say Hey, that's not my preference, a place to eat at, but I understand it's a waffle, fries, spar, fire.

You know, there so when people say I know the politics are shit, but I really like the waffle fries. And I was like, you know what, that's fine. Like as long as you're aware, right? You're aware of what you're doing, you're aware of like where your money's going

J.R.: like your values, right? 

Aeden: Yeah. 

J.R.: I think I mentioned this, but I am very. Food, bus, food, business what is the word? Like ambiguous, agnostic or whatever about their ethics. I'm like, if you give me, if you show me a good deal and that comes across my Instagram or promotion and it's like, buy one, get one off.

Aeden: Yeah. 

J.R.: Freaking Chick-fil-A. I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna go to Chick-fil-A in five minutes because that is a good deal and I don't give a fuck because my justification is again, value system earning money, earning mm-hmm. Girl math or whatever you wanna call it, right? I'm making money because I gotta buy one, get one free.

And like it's a good deal. Fits in with [00:39:00] that. And it's actually I think that's my violent value system is if it's a good deal. I think because I'm like, but I dunno. I'm myself does it 

Aeden: tasting. What if it's a 

J.R.: good deal? So, yeah. Okay. Exactly. So the reason why I didn't say good tasting on that is because I've bought things where I'm like, I don't even really want this, but I, I need to, or I'm gonna lose moneybecause it's such a good deal.

And so there's the only times, okay, here's my thing. The only times I go to Starbucks is when there's a ridiculously good promo. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, okay, Starbucks. Right. No one likes Starbucks, whatever. They're losing money. Fantastic. I love that. They're not making money off of me for sure. And so these businesses are for sure losing money off of me.

Maybe they aren't. Maybe it. Mm-hmm. It cost you know, 10 cents to make that Chick-fil-A sandwich. But like off of me, they're not getting retail for sure. I'm not gonna pay the full price for that. I'm always gonna get some sort of really good deal. So there is a threshold for me of that, of okay, I'm gonna do my best to make, earn money, save money for myself, but I'm for sure going to make sure that that business is not gonna earn retail price off of me.

Aeden: Yeah. [00:40:00] 

J.R.: And that's how I do my social justice. 

Aeden: Yeah. Valid And. I know that there are companies that I give money to that people don't like. Right. Or there are reasons not to give them money. What was it? Target people said Target. Target, yeah. My DEI because they got rid of their DEI policy when Trump came into office, I'm like, I'm not gonna lie.

I like walking to Target guys. It's nice and it's convenient. Will I always buy something? No. Do I know that they're anti DEI or they've rescinded their DI policy? Yes. And that's the bullet I'm willing to bite.

J.R.: Yeah, 

Aeden: I'm aware of my choices. Are you? And I think that's for me, the big crux of the issue is I just want folks to be honest.

Be transparent. 

J.R.: Right, right, right. Yeah. And you know, I have a good number of friends too who are very, you know, buy local small businesses. Nothing wrong with that, right? And it's okay, sure, that's fine. But there's a, there's, I think everyone has their threshold of what they're willing to make adjustments [00:41:00] for.

So for me, since a high priority, sorry, high value priority for me is like the money aspect, the economic one. It's is it worth the additional drive to go to this place to spend more money on a locally sourced small business, whatever, handcrafted thing? Maybe, maybe not, but I think. If you like, to your point to the awareness of yeah, maybe it is more ethical to go to this like mom and pop store, but also my favorite place is like literally right there and I go there all the time and I got rewards from them for all I know.

Seven Leaves could be like a horrible company and they like, you know, kill babies or something. I don't know. I'm still going until I hear that exact line. I'm, I have like 700 leaves, rewards points just stacked up. Same with Dave. And I'm like, there are reasons why I go here for the convenience of the service, the value, the experience, et cetera.

And you know, I'll do that calculus again if I hear that there ha there's some atrocities that there're funding. I don't know. 

Aeden: Yeah. And. You know, that's totally valid. I think my, I lean a little bit more towards the political, like the sociopolitical [00:42:00] side of that because mm-hmm. The finances for me, if we talk about spending habits, it's awful.

Oh my god, I have a very, that's 

J.R.: our next topic, so keep going. 

Aeden: I have very weak justification for finances. I'll be like, you know what, it's fine. I'll just spend but I, if we're at a, I don't know, let's say a farmer's market and the choices are this mom and pop like what do we call those?

Like a mom and pop, like little stand or like a Chipotle stand. I'll go to the mom and pop one, you know, just because there's, I never see them anyways. It's like they're right there at might as well there's.

J.R.: Like those vendor fairs or whatever, those, like 

Aeden: farmer's 

J.R.: markets, et cetera.

Yeah, yeah, 

Aeden: yeah, yeah. And honestly, I think it's worth the experience because it elevates the experience for me anyways. 

J.R.: The third topic was good deals and the phantom cost of space.

So I already talked about how I, my addiction slash achilles heel is good deals. Even if I don't want it but there are so many buy one get one deals in the past however many months, and half the time I'll give her the free [00:43:00] drink that I'm getting. But Blessie babysits these drinks.

And so the next day there's another BOGO and it's at Davien. and I'm like, Hey, there's egg coffee bottle and get one free.

She's like, I still have my 7 Leaves from yesterday. I'm like is this what it's like to be single, not having a girlfriend, I can just give free drinks to?

I'm joking. Obviously guys don't hate me.

So half of these cases, if the BOGOs are too close together, I am drinking two, 7 leaves by myself or two Daviens.

And so like just a big back I am, like I have one waiting in my fridge for the next day because obviously I don't want Blessie to like, you know, fall off on her diet and I support her there. But I'm like, but you don't support my need to buy more things than I need. That's my first whole problem.

So now leading up from good deals is the phantom cost of space is the actual topic. And so now, not to be on a too much of a high horse but I know it is, is so I get these BOGOs, I consume it, whatever, it's gone. But I think what people need to question more is when they do jump on these deals, it's, there's the hidden phantom [00:44:00] costs of buying tangible goods or items like a purse or a tv, right?

Mm-hmm. Oh my God, this name brand purse is on sale, $300 off, or oh my God, this flat screen TV is off $500, right? And you can wait in line for six hours to do this Black Friday, $500. That's first of all, that's bullshit for some to so many reasons for my own value system. But I'm like, now you're out garage space for two TVs if you even have a garage or if you store it wherever.

When you buy a physical thing, you need to account for the real estate that you are now giving it in your living space because everything is real estate, meaning now you just have a new tenant living in your house or your room rent free. That doesn't spark joy. You don't need, is not functional. It's just sitting there.

You only bought because it was a good deal and you made money of it or whatever. It's like, but now it's a physical thing that you have to deal with.

And for me, and I find in a lot of like minimalism principles is the more things you have, the more stressed out you are, the more anxious you are, the more you have to take care of stuff and the less space you have, because the more it's taken up by things that you don't actually need [00:45:00] or want.

Right. So my takeaway is, yeah, good deals, whatever. Obviously I'm in that train, I drink the Kool-Aid, but I think people need a question when they make these consumers purchases is if it takes up real estate and space, think about the phantom cost because sure, you save 300, $400 on that tv, but if you let it sit in your garage for two years, you actually lost money because now you have less space, more anxiety, more stress about stuff and you could have used that money on something else.

Aeden: I feel that because I don't know if you've noticed I've cleared out some of the shelves here just because the amount of things building up in my room was getting to a point where it was suffocating.

And even my mom who doesn't ever really come into my room, walked past one day and she's like, wow. It just feels so much lighter. There's so much air now. And I was like, well, yeah, that's because there's empty space. 

J.R.: there's literally more air in this room than, 

Aeden: yeah. And I do agree that the cost of having physical things live in the [00:46:00] space is something that I have not taken into account for before it, it's.

Pretty funny to me to hear your story because I feel like growing up I've had the opposite experience where if someone would gift me something, I would say, don't give me food or drink because that's gone in two seconds. Give me something that I can hang on to. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Aeden: And now that I'm at this point in my life where I have so many things I'm hanging onto, I have come to this point where I have to determine how long is a thing allowed to stay with me before I can let it go.

And if I were to let it go in, what manner I would let it go. Right. So that's been an interesting transition or like change for me. 

J.R.: Yeah, that makes sense. I also recently reread Maria Kondo's the life-changing magic of Tidying Up. So it kind of reminded me of this sort of thing of the phantom cost of your physical items.

And so I thought about that a lot. It's yeah, there's actually weighing you. It's kinda like debt. If you have a thing that is not [00:47:00] serving a purpose in your life, the physical space it takes up is debt. And so I tell people like, look, yeah, I'm like the opposite. I'm like, buy me food or something that I can consume and be gone with, or stickers or one piece T-shirts.

That's literally it. Because T-shirts take a minimal space, highly functional, highly high on the spark joy meter. And so if it's not those two things it is just gathering dust in my room until I can throw it away safely without you noticing that I threw it away.

Aeden: Also, I do have this tendency to be like, oh my goodness, deal. Let me like impulse by. So that is something that I've had to really pause myself on. I'll see a good deal and like actually just sit there for a minute holding it, being like, will I ever use you? Or you just gonna sit there because if you're just gonna sit there, I might as well not get you.

And I think it's hard because I'm like, I want it though, even if it just sits there. Makes sense. Discipline. Discipline is hard. [00:48:00] 

J.R.: Most of the things that sit there in my room are gifts from other people. And I'm really good at, if it's not, well, it's backfired because if it's not one piece related, it's gone in a week.

But this freaking, these one piece things that are like figurines, and I'm like, it sparks joy, but also it's, it takes up too much space.

So those things like usually gather dust for longer and I, I honestly have not been able to throw away some one piece thing. So that's the trick. If you're my friend listening to this, if you want me to keep the thing that you get me and just to torture me. Yeah, buy me like a physical one piece thing that takes up space and I'll be like, shit, I don't know how to get rid of this because it's one piece.

But at the same time, it's like, I hate things that take up so much space. If it's not again, t-shirts or a sticker or consumable. 

Aeden: Yeah. I'll get you a life size Zoro figurine. 

J.R.: You're a terrible person. 

Aeden: You'll keep that forever. 

J.R.: No. I'll be like, freaking, I'll just cuddle with that.

I'm like, [00:49:00] God, damnit fucking Aeden. I was like, cuddle with this huge ass, Zoro 

Okay. Sorry. Spending habits now, now that we're bleeding into the next one.

For me, I mentioned this, it's like I've gotten to the point where growing up more frugal or you know, less financially well off, you get used to rationing things and being more conservative or intentional with your money and that'll serve you to a point.

But it's gotten to a point where there are some things where it's worth the purchase, obviously. And as I become more wise with my finances, it's okay, these things will actually increase the value of my life. And I'll tell myself when I'm on the fence about a purchase and I'm like, usually I'd be too frugal about it.

I'll be like, dude, I make way too much money to worry about buying extra this. 

 If anyone ever asked me my own questions against me, which is like best purchase that you've made in the last six months, it would be extra chargers, right?

Phone chargers or laptop chargers for me because the unplugging it, wrapping it up, taking it with me, and then go and then putting it in and then going back home and doing that setup. I'm like, dude, [00:50:00] I make way too much money to not buy another $30 laptop adapter battery charger thing.

So now I bought multiple, and so same thing with my like phone charger, to bring your one charger and then potentially lose it rather than just having five lying around where you need it has been a game changer.

So it's just spending money more wisely.

Aeden: Man, yeah, I definitely relate with a lot of the early things. Same thing I'll get books and toys. And I was like, oh, but I want it to stay in good condition.

And because of that, I don't touch it for a while. Which at some point it's like, whoa, what's the point of this? 

J.R.: What was the point of this toy? Yeah, 

Aeden: yeah, yeah. I think one example that I had brought up earlier was sometimes I'll get snacks and I was like, oh my God, this is such a good snack, but I wanna save it for a good occasion.

And next thing I know it's been two years, the snack has now expired. And I was like, I mean, what if another good occasion comes? And I ruined it by eating it today. And I was like, ah, man. Scarcity. Exactly. So I've just had to really train myself into. Reminding myself that I'm no longer in that space, right?

Like I'm [00:51:00] no longer in a scarcity mindset. I have a job I can afford a couple things. Like I can afford socks, it's fine, just wear the socks. But I think I swung a little bit harder than you where I'm kind of like, oh man, like I can afford socks and I can afford nice socks, so I'm gonna get like these $1 gold and laid socks.

And then I'm like, that wasn't really necessary, but I do have these socks now. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Aeden: So I find myself in this space, especially after our financial discussions over the past year in trying to reel myself back from that hard swing and say yes, I have disposable income that I can spend on socks, but also let's, you know, be rational and reasonable about what kind of socks we buy, you know?

J.R.: Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah. To your point, like I've had friends and even coaching clients who had that same problem where maybe it's a psychological thing or when we grow up poor or grow up frugal. Mm-hmm. And then now we have [00:52:00] a little bit of money, we think like the flood gates go open.

Yeah. And so one of my clients too had that same experience where it's like, oh, but it's worth spending money on experiences because that's like an investment. And I'm like, girl, no, that's not, that's not what an investment is that's a lifestyle luxury purchase. That is a purchase that's not necessary.

You just, it's an indulgence. Right. And if you wanna, as long as you label it in the right category financially, you're fine. You budget for it. You label the right categories, fine. But don't delude yourself into thinking it's an investment.

You going to the spa is not a crap. Now we're back and forth. So a spa in the traditional sense of just, oh my God, spa manicure, pedicure.

That is not an investment in anything. Sure, you can say you can relax, but that's literally a luxury, that's like that Louis Vuitton purse.

 You shouldn't just dump money because you think it's an investment. You should be more intentional of where you're putting your resources so that you don't swing too hard in that direction.

And so for me, what I teach is once everything is [00:53:00] covered in going in the direction where it should be going in terms of your money, now you have this slice of your pie that you can spend guilt free.

Yeah, go ahead throw it away on luxury items or whatever, self-care indulgences. Mm-hmm. Because you have your investments and your savings taken care of, and your, your income is good and your growing your skill level and all this other stuff. But then, yeah, I think for me it was like my household spending was so low.

Mm-hmm. That I didn't realize that some of that household spending can go into my gratuitous spending and I have a ton of money for gratuitous spending, and now extra chargers and socks are now in the gratuitous spending category. 

Aeden: Love that for you. I'm glad they're no longer luxuries. 

J.R.: I'm definitely moving into a space of being a little more discerning.

Aeden: So for example, even with chargers, I would say well, I have one and it kind of works, so that should be fine. I can it's not hurting me to get another one. But maybe a month ago I actually was just like, you know what? Let me buy new charger that actually just works all the time and then [00:54:00] take better care of that one.

That's, you know, a win-win situation for both me and my charger. 

J.R.: Hmm. Yeah. There is that piece of taking care of stuff that's a Maria Kondo as well. You treat things as precious and they'd last longer. I'm all about longevity and getting the most of your money out of whatever you buy. 

Aeden: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And then that, for that one, I'm trying to peel that one back a little bit. Caring for things too much and never using them. Not good. So,

Oh, here's an example. I have these huge water bottles, or the one that I was using and my mom had a similar one and it just broke one day. And so I was like, oh, but technically it's still usable.

I should hang onto it. Yeah. Like, sure, it doesn't fill up all the way because at the top it'll leak, but you know, it's okay. And then I had to talk myself down and say you know what? Mom doesn't use hers, I'll just use hers. I'll throw mine away. And then hers was sitting idle for so long that the handle just broke because the plastic was migrate.

Oh yeah. And I was like, well, [00:55:00] I could still use it. It's just the handle doesn't work. And I had to keep fighting myself back and forth on this because I was like, why am I using a thing that like just doesn't work the way that it was supposed to? And what I didn't think of was like in my room, I have like three of these, like other water containers, other liquid containers that I could just use instead that work perfectly fine.

And we're sitting there gathering dust because I was like, oh, they're new. I don't wanna use them.

After a month, I decided to throw away the two broken bottles and I am now using this very nice like honey colored hydro flask. 

J.R.: I'll sit on a purchase if I'm, if I don't think it's absolutely necessary. And of course the more expensive the purchase, the longer I'll sit on it.

But I think about the problem it's gonna solve or the inconvenience that it's solving and how much it costs. And so let's say this thing is like a five to $10 per $10 purchase, that is very inconvenient. And that five to $10 would solve it [00:56:00] immediately.

And I'll actually use the thing, it's not gonna gather dust in this situation, but I realized that I spent $50 on a dinner that I didn't really need last week. And so I'm like, okay, I know I'm spending a lot more money on less useful, important things like mindlessly and, and taking off the table that I have the budget for all this, right?

So I have the budget for all this. It's fine. Mm. But it's okay I can just instead now spend less money. Unintentionally on these larger purchases that are significantly more times more expensive and a $5 purchase here will actually improve the quality of my life. I've been doing that calculus more and it's been helpful to make the right purchases.

Aeden: Mm, that's good to know. I'm definitely working on pivoting my spending habits. You know, like I said before, based on a lot of our financial conversations over the past year and also now that I have a finance tracking budgeting tool that I can look at, it's been giving me some insights into what my spending habits are.

And it's pretty [00:57:00] interesting because I definitely think I have a lot of invisible recurring payments that are now being brought to light because the tracker is just like, oh, we've noticed a couple recurring payments Interesting. Here they all are. And I was like, dang, I'm spending a lot of money on things that just suck up money each month.

J.R.: Yeah. So, but, so you know what they are, but you didn't know you were having them.

Aeden: Like I logically knew they were there, but emotionally I didn't feel the impact of their continued recurrence. 

J.R.: Oh, you didn't see it?

But they're worth being on the payroll. 

Aeden: That's the conversation that I had to have with myself and with things that were not okay. I had to cut the cord and say you know what?

It's okay. Thank you. Bye. 

J.R.: Yeah. That's, those are one of those things, like red flags that I try to look out for are these recurring subscriptions. Mm-hmm. Because I'm like, okay, if I'm gonna mindlessly let you take my money each month, like e every time I see that charge, like it hurts a little bit, but I'm like, okay, can I justify another month?

And if I'm using it, getting the value, sure. Whatever, but sometimes I'm just like, [00:58:00] ah, shit, yeah, I should really pull the plug on this. 'cause it's the fear of lost you. Like, oh, and I'm not gonna have access to this thing anymore, like Amazon Prime or whatever the thing is. But it's like, really? But am I using it?

That's a dangerous thing. 'cause it's now mindless automation in the wrong direction. You want mindless automation in the direction of savings and investing, but not in the way of spending. I feel like that's, yeah, that's like a, you know, a tip. 

Aeden: And I think the like cousin, sister pair to that is if I see a recurring payment and I feel like I might getting value out of it to get more value out of it.

Mm-hmm. An example of that was I used to share a Netflix account with a friend who lived in Philly and because of the IP locking, we no longer share. So I decided to get the Disney Plus bundle instead, you know, watch stuff that I haven't seen yet. And there was a period in which I was not really watching anything.

I was referring to YouTube a lot more. And I recalled [00:59:00] that I was being charged by Disney for this. And I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna focus on watching stuff on the Disney bundle. Right. I am now watching more Disney shows, more Hulu shows, HBO Max, and because of that, I'm feeling like it's now bringing more value from the money that I'm putting out.

And it's also, you know, giving me happiness, joy, and spending my free doing something that is not work related. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, definitely. Because in that situation you're like, okay, you know, you're gonna watch something anyways. You wanna watch this, and so it works out. 

Aeden: Yeah. 

J.R.: As opposed to, I think the slippery slope is justifying the something like that. And in those situation where it's actually I know I shouldn't be watching TV as much, so I should actually cancel it and stop watching and do something more productive. And that's the scenario where it's like, okay, you gotta be careful. But if you're intentional about no, no, I want to watch stuff and I know I can budget my energy to this, then that makes sense.

Aeden: Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, once again, I know Disney is not always the best ethical company. [01:00:00] And this is a bullet. I will. 

J.R.: But it's a good deal. It is a good bundle deal though. You get so much of the bundle. What are you talking about? 

Aeden: And listen, I will own it. If people say, you know, your money's going to like a company who does bad stuff, I'll say Yes. And the content is shut 

J.R.: up and eat your Chick-fil-A. 

Aeden: Yeah, exactly. I was just like, you enjoy Chick-fil-A. I've heard this. You know, everybody has their what do we call it? Their faults? I don't know. Their vices. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, their vices. 

Aeden: Yeah. Just own it. It's fine. You're allowed to have your vices just own it.

J.R.: That is the takeaway is self-awareness. Own your vices, go to the spa. Good deals. Know your values.

Okay. So we are past the hour. I'm gonna try to keep this super tight 'cause I do have a hard out eventually. But I think we covered all the topics. Is there anything we, you think we missed?

Aeden: No, I think that's everything. Yeah. 

J.R.: Cool. Well, I mean, I thought this was fun. I think unlike a super random show, I feel like it was very focused and we had some recurring themes 

Aeden: Yeah. 

J.R.: Threads going through there. So if the [01:01:00] listeners can get to those, hopefully get some value out of our own echo chamber of we just think the same and the same things bother us and we are in the minority. If like you got some value, great. 

Aeden: We are the oppressed few. 

J.R.: We are the oppressed few who just wanna optimize and are angry at other people for not being as optimized. That's our archetype.

It's funny 'cause it's true.

All right. So if nothing else, then I guess we can do our sign off.

Gratitude what you grateful for Aeden? 

Aeden: I'm really grateful for, thank you. A lot of the work that you put into, you know, improving yourself and the honesty that you approach yourself with, because I think that just naturally lends itself to our relationship as well. And so, you know, it may be an echo chamber, but it was designed to be one, and I'm happy to be here.

J.R.: It's true. Because our echo chamber is our self-care indulgence, where we get to unwind and de-stress, right? It's like, absolutely. No, I'm so mad. Thanks for validating my feelings, because just feel the same way. Even if, even if we might both be wrong. Who [01:02:00] cares? 

Aeden: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yep. 

J.R.: Nice. All right.

Where can people find you if they wanna check out what you're up to and connect and whatnot? 

Aeden: You can check out Instagram. Yeah. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Aeden: So my Instagram is where I'm most active socially, even though I'm not super, super active. Yeah. And she just hit me up. 

J.R.: Sweet. Okay. All right, well then that is it.

Let me wind till a close now. So thank you guys for being here. I really appreciate it. Hope you enjoyed this very random, random show, sort of not random, whatever.

I think if Aeden and i's sort of random chats are your style, you will enjoy this episode.

If our thought processes really turn you off, don't ever listen to our random shows because it's pretty much just this. Yeah. It's us just talking about the same themes, which is whatever. As long as we're having fun, it's our indulgence.

So if you did enjoy it, leave us five stars on whatever platform you're listening to. Leave Aeden love in the comments.

Five stars. Yeah. Like, subscribe, follow, et cetera. Reminder to always be kind to other people, especially yourself. Don't be as judgmental as us and remember that [01:03:00] you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen. So thank you guys for being here. 

Aeden: Yeah, thank you so much.