J.R.: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus, where we share the stories and wisdom from people of all walks of life. I am your host, J.R. Yonocruz. Today, we have back on the show the man, the myth, the legend, Dr. Arnel Calvario Ripkens, back on the show for a long-waited return episode. Wow, this was the sequel that we have all been waiting for, or at the very least, this was personally my most anticipated sequel that I've been looking forward to, And I was so happy how this conversation turned out.

Anyone who knows or who has been exposed to who Arnel is knows that he is a treasure in the dance community and a grounding presence, aside from his literal decades of wisdom that he generously gives to the spaces he's involved in.

We're of course back in studio for this one, and we cover a wide range of topics from his journey to fatherhood, he and his husband are preparing for twins, having succession plans when taking on responsibilities in the space, why VIBE holds a special place in his heart as his favorite community dance event, what it's like being involved as a head judge in IDL, International Dance League, [00:01:00] dance legacies and him stepping back into performing again this year, especially in ways to honor his late friend and dance trailblazer, Anna Sarao, teaching workshops in the Philippines during his babymoon, and overall stepping into this new chapter of his life.

It's a fantastic, easily one of my top tier episodes of all time, and I'll be listening to this one over and over, and hopefully you guys get as much out of this as I did. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Dr. Arnel Calvario Ripkens.

Hello, and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus. Arnel, welcome back to the show. 

Arnel: Good to be back. 

J.R.: I am so happy to have you back. Man, I told you I'm gonna have, like, a long mini monologue in the beginning, but your episode, last time you were here was over a year and a half ago. We recorded in December 2024, published February 2025.

Mm-hmm. And so it is now July. And to this, so that's season, season three, episode 21. This is season 10, episode [00:02:00] 94, so that's, like, 70-plus episodes- Wow ... since then. And despite all that, your episode is still, not trying to glaze you, still one of my favorite episodes. Aw. 

Arnel: Thank you. 

J.R.: You know, I've had a lot of great guests on the show, great insights, but I think there's just something special that anyone who knows you knows that there's a special Arnel magic in the air- Aw

when he comes into a room. And so I gave this little story to Arnel right before we started recording. But the reason why I asked him back on the show, and I, I know Arnel's busy and he's doing great work, and I don't wanna bother him too much, but it's because my last three previous guests from episodes have mentioned Arnel by name.

And I was like- ... this must be, like, a call from the universe to ask you back. And then I asked you, and you're like, "Yeah, I'm free here this time." We found some t- some time- Mm-hmm ... and then now we're here. So shout-out to these episodes. So episode 85, Lil B. He said that you are such an advocate and hype man or lover of locking and lockers and locking space, and he's like, "Yeah, I love that guy, man.

He's just so hype about-" ... you know, locking. And so Lil B we, we go back from when I was in high school. He used to- Mm-hmm ... I used to dance with him on AOV, [00:03:00] and he was one of my inspirations. And then you just came up. Yes. And- 

Arnel: I love Lil B ... 

J.R.: it was a great conversation about locking, and then of course you came up in there.

Ramy, episode 87. Ramy Sidhom, Kaba Modern. Of 

Arnel: course. 

J.R.: And he said that you, what's special about you is you bring gratitude into every space that you're in. Mm-hmm. Which of course anyone who knows you knows that's absolutely true. And then recently, Trandrew's episode just dropped, and he was talking about, we were talking about mental health and the power of therapy, and he said, "I got this from Arnel, that the best investment you can give is to yourself and therapy and your own mental health," because that's something that's super important.

And so yeah. And now we're here today. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: And so we have a lot of catching up to do, obviously. We have some really good topics that I would love to touch on, but I wanted to start off a little bit light, I guess, and we have a ton of updates. But since we last talked I know you are expecting twins.

You've been doing- 

Arnel: Mm-hmm ... 

J.R.: you're in a new judging role. You've been traveling all over. Let's start really, really small. How are you, Arnel? 

Arnel: Well, first of all, it's a pleasure [00:04:00] to be here. That last interv- interview podcast that we ha- we did was also one of my favorites to, that I've done. I think I told you already- I think you did, yeah

'cause I share, it was a combination of just catching up on a lot of things, but also shared a lot of personal things that I hadn't shared prior to that point, right? So, so yeah, I really enjoyed, and, and the content and ethos and purpose of your podcast is, definitely aligns with what I believe in as well.

So it's, it's good to be back and good to see you. Thank you. And a pleasure to be here. 

J.R.: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh before how are you, I do have a gift for you. It's not really a gift, but it's more of a, "Here are your sunglasses back." Oh, my God. It's been in my GlofoBox. Yo. I tried to keep it safe.

... I apologize for not giving it back to you.

Arnel: This, these are my these are my car sunglasses- Yeah, yeah ... that I- 

J.R.: It was my car sunglasses for a year. 

Arnel: Right. 

J.R.: I'd never used it, but it was- 

Arnel: I, I have lost- At least 10 of these Yeah, yeah These are the Kinjaz sunglasses. 

J.R.: Nice. Dope. 

Arnel: Happy to have it back. 

J.R.: Yeah, there you go.

Thank you, brother. Yeah. So it was [00:05:00] actually Ramy, where he was in studio, and I was like, "Oh, I have Arnel's sunglasses." And he's like, "Oh, I c- I'm gonna see him tomorrow." I'm like, "Wait, actually, I'll keep it as bait so I can..." So 

Arnel: I'll have to come 

J.R.: back. Maybe I can just be like, "Hey, I got your sunglasses."

But anyways, so yeah, how are you, Arnel? How's, how's, how's everything on, I guess, on a surface level? 

Arnel: Everything's been good. I'm on summer break right now 'cause I work for Long Beach Unified School District, so I'm on that summer break schedule. And this summer was filled with a lot of dance. Like, at the top of this year, knowing that I was gonna, you know, hopeful- you know, intending to be a father I said at the top of this year that I wanna dance more while I can.

You know, one, at this age, and one, before I cr- jump into this next life transition. And so yeah, this has been my busiest year, like, performing. I performed a lot. I performed three times at Body Rock. Mm. I performed four times at Culture Shock LA's show, Interwoven, that just passed. And these are things that weren't...

only one of those things was pr- was planned. Everything else [00:06:00] just kind of organically came about, like God and universe kind of delivered. Yeah. So, so I'm good. I'm like I'm feeling abundant. Last year was a hard year for me. And well, we can probably talk about that later, but so this year was a lot of healing and also reclaiming myself, and then readying myself to change and evolve once again in a, in a lot of different ways.

So yeah, so it's been really, really good. 

J.R.: Mm, that's exciting. It's so crazy to respectfully, at your age, and then going back into dancing at that level, Yeah. ... Props to you, man. 

Arnel: Yeah. Anything past, like I didn't, I originally, like, as a, a young Kaba Modern dancer, like, I really was like, "I can't. I'm not gonna probably be performing past 30."

Mm. You know what I mean? That's kind of a probably not it, you know? So I'm gonna do everything in my 20s, whatever. But I long surpassed that now. And you know, I'm 53, and so I would never have thought that I would be choreographing and dancing. Teaching, yes. Like, I [00:07:00] can see myself teaching and sharing- Mm

and, and dancing r- recr- you know, recreational and socially, of course. But performing on the stage and choreographing for performance on stage that's something different. 

J.R.: Yeah. That- I mean, man, your goals, Arnel- ... being the longevity but also the engagement within dance, dance communities is very respectable.

And I think we mentioned this in Ramy's episode, but it's aspiring to be the Arnel in our own dance spaces- Oh ... I think is one of the things I, I mentioned. So you're definitely a role model for me. 

Arnel: Thank you, brother. 

J.R.: All right. So maybe we can get into the first topic, 'cause we have obviously a lot of updates, but there are...

These are covered in the topic. So the first one is surrogacy, parenthood, and- Mm ... expanding sense of identity. So- Yeah ... I'm just pers- personally curious. So when did becoming a dad move from just an idea into- Mm-hmm ... like, an actuality? 

Arnel: Actually, the, the honest answer to that question is I've always, even more than being a [00:08:00] husband wanted to be a father.

Mm. Like, since I was really, really young, that was my dream. Part of it might have to do with the fact I'm the oldest of four siblings, so I kind of was always like a third parent anyways. Mm-hmm. But I always dreamed of like, you know, being able to raise children and, and be a dad. I think what, from what I shared last, last podcast episode, I think when I was diagnosed HIV positive that was the first death of that dream.

Mm. And then I kinda rebirthed it as I kinda healed and, and went to therapy and and found my purpose in occupational therapy and dance. And then I started being optimistic again, like, okay, I, I, I think I wanna... I, I deserve to be a dad. I think I could be a g- a great one. I would love to be one if I meet the right person.

And then, you know, I started... The 30s started like going, keep, it kept going. I was like, oh, shoot, okay, now I'm in my 40s. So I was thinking maybe I'm, let me look into what it looks like to do it [00:09:00] alone, like adoption and surrogacy. And I was like, surrogacy is out of the question. You know, when you think about what it costs for the fertilization and the surrogacy process, you're really looking upwards 150 grand.

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: Wow. And so that's really daunting for like- Yeah ... a single income Right, right ... to do. And then I also thought about my lifestyle of like community work. Because if I were a single dad, I would l- definitely have to like really leave a lot of that behind just capacity-wise. So I was like, okay, I'm just gonna see what happens, but if I, around 45, I started feeling, okay, I think it's just not in the cards for me, you know?

So that was like the second death of that dream and so I'm just gonna be the best... At, at that point, I was like I'm, I'm already ninong to 10, or godfather to 10, you know, godchildren. So I'm just gonna be the best, best ninong ever, best uncle. And then of course, you know, when I stopped looking and, you know, I, I mentioned in the, my la- in the last [00:10:00] episode as well I met Dustin, you know, when, at probably my highest point of self-healing and self-love and and that's when we had conversation early in the relationship that he would be willing to push up his dreams of being a dad earlier- Mm

if I was willing to expand my vision of being a dad later. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: And so we kinda met in the middle, and we decided that after we get mar- we wanna be married for at least a year and a half and just focus on having a foundation as a couple. But after that, we would start. And so, so that's when it began. It began about a year and a half ago.

Of exploring adoption and, and ultimately deciding with surrogacy. So- 

J.R.: Mm. Well, were there any deciding factors between the two? 

Arnel: So, we actually, our first choice was surrogacy because it, it would just be a dream come true to have... We, we first decided to go with Dustin's DNA to, to begin with, one because even though there's sperm washing and [00:11:00] people who are HIV positive can absolutely have children- Mm

uh, you know, it's, it's less than .001, you know, percent chance of transmission. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Arnel: For me, I just didn't wanna take any chance. Mm. Unless it's, like, guaranteed zero, because, you know, I made my choices that ended up, you know, landing me in this path, but I didn't wanna- choose a path at that where someone wouldn't have the choice.

You know what I mean? So, we decided to go with Dustin's DNA, and we thought it should be a dream come true to at least have his DNA in the world, and then and then the dream would d- be to have a Filipino egg so that my heritage would still be represented in our children. And when we ran the numbers, we were like, "Wow, adoption's also really expensive."

Oh, mm-hmm. "So let's just go for the dream," you know? And it is daunting to think, like, wow, you need over 100 grand to make this a, a reality. But when we did a lot more research, especially after talking to my brother Eric and Cliff they had already had two s- successful [00:12:00] surrogacy journeys. R- kind of getting more knowledgeable as to how spread out those payments are and, and different ways to go about it, we decided to just go for it.

J.R.: Mm. Yeah. Wow, that's, yeah, that's very interesting and, and happy for you guys, of course. Is there, was there anything else that surrogacy has taught you guys that you didn't expect going in? 

Arnel: I think, So D- so Dustin and I are both, like, planners, you know? And I think when we planned our wedding, we already saw our different strengths.

J.R.: Yeah. '

Arnel: Cause I, I realized that he's really good with Excel spreadsheets and planning and really the minute details, and for me, I'm very creative, but I'm also really patient when things kinda go sideways and a little bit different. So we kinda support each other in, in when, in these planning processes, and I think with the surrogacy journey, that's one of the unexpected things is realize- like, s- seeing how that emerged even in a deeper way because now we're talking about children.

But it l- in th- in this [00:13:00] time around, different than the wedding, like, really appreciating it 'cause it's much more emotional, and realizing, like, I really appreciate that he's passionate about all of the Excel spreadsheets 'cause you need that for how big these finances are, all the details and the, and being able to organize everything.

And then I'm the dreamer and creative, and also I'm really into, like, communication and, and how everyone is feeling, you know, with the, with our g- gestational carrier Brooke, and as well as all our agencies, making sure all the communication when we ask questions is put in a way that's still team-oriented and- Mm

positive so that they're not, you know, getting frustrated with us when we have a lot of questions. So, this time around we really, like- really saw each other's strengths and and also embraced and accepted also our weaknesses and, and things that are really hard for us. So for me, I get overwhelmed when I see all the numbers, and for him, you know, sometimes we'd have a plan, and it would just...

[00:14:00] actually every single plan was, ended up being different. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah. Right. 

Arnel: Time-wise, you know what I mean? It's like you have a timeline, and then at some point you have to just accept that you have to throw the timeline out a little bit and see it for what it is, 'cause there are we are dealing with, like, human beings and biology and science, you know?

And, and also I believe in what is also meant to be, and that's very rarely aligned with your specific timeline plan. Mm-hmm. Right? Right. So that's been the greatest lesson, is to stick together through it all and realize that, you know, we're a team, and we're all, we're, we're reaching for the same goal.

And that even though things are different, it's probably just because it's meant to be that way. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I never realized that, but it makes sense that it's a huge effort for something like that, especially, like, a, like you said- Mm ... a team and then working together and going through this whole process.

Yeah. I can see that a lot. Twins. Mm-hmm. So I don't, I don't know how surrogacy works [00:15:00] and everything, but- 

Arnel: Yeah ... 

J.R.: it, like, do you guys decide that? Was it accidental? How, how does that work? 

Arnel: So when you decide to do a surrogacy journey, there are two big steps. The first step is making the embryo. So you have one agency where you work with the agency to get an egg donor, and then you fertilize, you know, and, and see if you get any viable embryos.

Then once you have the embryos, you decide, like, how, how many are you going to transfer. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: And you have to then have a separate agency that is for your surrogacy journey. And the more appropriate term is gestational carrier. So your, your gestational carrier, you have to be matched with that person.

So the agency finds out what are the things that are important for you, and then they h- and then all of the gestational carriers in their database, they have their own profile, and then they try to match us. Mm. So, first there's a matching for the egg donor, then there's a matching for the surrogacy.

They're never the same person. 

Mm-hmm. 

Unless you do it [00:16:00] outside of agency, just personal, you can do that as well. But through the agencies, they keep them separate, so there's no, like, incredible, like, emotional attachment- I see ... you know, with that. So, so yeah, the first stage is like, "Okay, are we gonna get any embryos?"

And then now you have embryos, you're like, "All right, what are we gonna do? Are we gonna have one? Are we gonna have two? Are we gonna do separate journeys?" If you do separate journeys, then that's, like, you know, close to 300 grand. Mm. So 

J.R.: Okay. 

Arnel: We looked at that and we're like, "There's no way," because our, you know, my job doesn't cover any of that process.

Oh. Like zero. Wow. So all of that's out-of-pocket, and there are a few grants out there, and, and we got some. We didn't get a full-on monetary grant, but we got some discount grants where, from agencies that partner with these agencies that we qualified for. So, we initially planned to have, you know, a singlet and just, you know, transfer one embryo.[00:17:00] 

But we knew we really deep down wanted to have, you know, more than one child. Mm. And our original plan was to have a singlet and then adopt an older child. Mm. And then but then the adoption process could be anywhere from one to three years. Wow. And because I'm older, we realized I think we need to, like, rethink it.

So it's interesting, because we went in with a whole game plan- Mm-hmm ... for a singlet. We already matched with our surrogate. We were about to sign the contract, and then the sur- our our gestational carrier, Brooke, she's like, "Oh, I just, you know, I always wanted to carry twins, so maybe one day I'll carry twins, you know, if I, if I ever, you know, if I have it in me to do another journey."

And then that's what got Dustin thinking. And I was at a, I was teaching workshops in the Philippines, and he goes, like, he messaged me, "Hey, babe," like, "what do you think about having twins?" And I was like, "I'm in the Philippines." Yeah. "That's a big question." So when we came back, we talked about it, and he said, "Why don't we just go for it, and if it's meant to [00:18:00] be, then then that's what, what we're gonna do."

But our doctor was very cautious in letting us know, and we love our doctor, Dr. Park, Dr. Susanna Park. She said, "There's only 20 to 30% chance that the second embryo will, will make it." 

J.R.: Mm. "

Arnel: So definitely go for it. I don't wanna crush your dreams, but just, like, please know that that's, that's, that is the odds."

But I don't know, when they transferred and I saw it on the monitor, I just had a, I had one of those gut feelings. Yeah, and they both made it. Mm. So 

J.R.: here we are. 

Arnel: Wow. 28 weeks, so. That's 

J.R.: exciting. Yeah. So you guys wanted at least two kids it seems like, and then- Yeah ... this, this happened. How are you guys preparing for two?

I mean, I'm sure, like- Yeah ... normally one is a lot. Yeah. So you both and two, how are you feeling about that? 

Arnel: So before we even did the surrogacy journey to begin with, we talked to a lot of parents and then we talked to a lot of gay parents first. Once we decided to do the twin journey, then we started, we shifted and we also, we had, like- eight different conversations with eight different twin parents to kind of just [00:19:00] get perspectives- Mm-hmm

before we pull the trigger. Mm. And one thing that they all said is that whether you have two as twins or whether you have two one year apart, once you make a commitment to having multiple children, it's difficult. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: But you're just only gonna know what you know. So it's, you just have to make the best decision that you think that you, is best for your lifestyle and, and that you're, you think you're equipped to do.

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: And we're like, "I think we can do it." Like I n- I know that Dustin's gonna be an incredible father. So and so we're like, "Okay, let's just see," you know? We're gonna go for it, and we got a lot of advice from twin parents. So we're just, It's, I know it's gonna be a lot, but it's also our greatest dream come true, and so far up to this point in my life, everything that means the most to me was worth the hard work in the end.

So, you know, with our family, it's, we're gonna make it work. It is gonna be hard, but I think it's gonna be worth it- 

J.R.: Mm-hmm ... 

Arnel: in the end, so. 

J.R.: Yeah. Some, like, [00:20:00] the, the hardest things that we do are typically the most worth it, right? 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: So I'll, wanna pivot out of this since we have a lot more things, but that was such a- Yeah.

I'm so happy for you guys. Quick- Yeah ... quick tangent. Like, my mom's genie in a bottle dream is to, has always been to have twins. Mm. And since, y- we have th- she has three kids now, my sister, my brother, and I, and so she's like, now her dream is to have twin grandkids. And I'm like, "Mom, that's not up to me."

Unless I adopt or go through a similar process, I'm like, that's kind of, like, luck of the draw. And 

Arnel: so- Yes. That has to be in the gene pool. 

J.R.: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So I'm like, "I don't know. I try my best, Mom, but we'll see." So yeah, and, and I also resonate with that 'cause I think even more than all my career aspirations or whatnot, I've always also wanted to be a dad.

Arnel: Mm. 

J.R.: Like, yeah, marriage I think will be amazing- Yeah, you'd be a great dad ... and having so many, but, like, I would, I've, I remember when I was, like, maybe 16 or even younger and being like, "Man, I wanna have kids." Like, I would- Yeah ... I would love to be a dad, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. 

Arnel: Yeah.

I could see that happening for 

you, man. 

J.R.: Thank you. Last thing on, on identity and me, and being a father, and [00:21:00] I had a personal question, like, for me personally. So you are Kaba Modern's Yoda, and I'm, like, a big Star Wars nerd. Yeah. I've been reading, like, Star Wars novels. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: And I was curious about this, I was fascinated with this idea of identity, how we...

I don't know the origin story of Yoda, if someone else picked it for you or you picked it for yourself, and- 

Arnel: Mm-hmm ... 

J.R.: i'm curious generally about your identification with being that sort of Yoda figure. Mm-hmm. And as we know in the Star Wars universe, Yoda is the, you know, the wise old mentor sage, been around for a while, is grounded, gives good advice.

And of course people who know you can be like, "Oh, yeah, that's Arnel." I'm curious how the difference between how other people see you and how you see yourself with that identification. Do you have any thoughts on that? 

Arnel: Yeah, I mean, so Yoda was definitely something that, it was kind of around the KMTV- Mm

Six era. People started just calling me Yoda. I think at that point you know, Kaba Modern had already been in existence already for, you know, at least 15 years. And [00:22:00] so, yeah, and I already loved Yoda as a character, as like my fa- He was my favorite So when people started calling me it, I embraced it.

Like, "Yes, I love this." Yeah, yeah. But I think it wasn't until after the KMTV, wh- especially when I started, like, managing, like, Fanny Pak and the Beat Freaks and helping like Quest Crew and Poreotics and some other groups, and then I stepped into leadership for Culture Shock LA, that I feel like I embodied that essence and, you know, and, and I stepped into it, like, with full acceptance of what that means.

And then I also, the longevity at that... You know, now I'm, like, I've been in the community for 34 years, you know, since I- I've seen it since before all dance competitions. I've seen them all pop up one by one. And so now I embrace it as a, as not only a title, but a responsibility. Especially a lot of the OGs and people [00:23:00] who shared their histories and their stories with me, I feel like because I love and I l- I have reverence for, like, people like Don Campbell, right?

I just feel a responsibility to be that bridge between their generation and the generation below me, and that definitely feels like Yoda essence, you know? Or Yoda's job. So... And it's the highest compliment bec- for to even be considered a sage of any, of any universe. But to be a sage of my favorite universe- Mm.

Star Wars is so great. But I think there's a part of me that feels super uncomfortable with it, which is why, you know, Kaba Modern has Jedi Council advisors. I've assigned every single advisor a Jedi character. 

J.R.: Oh, wow. That's- 

Arnel: So I'm not the only one. 

J.R.: Yeah, 

Arnel: yeah. Like, Mike Song is Obi-Wan Kenobi. Oh, okay.

Jason Bueno is Qui-Gon Jinn. 

J.R.: Okay, okay. 

Arnel: Yeah, so- Hm ... yeah. So I so yeah, I, I accept that. And, and now I think one of the hardest things [00:24:00] last year was another person in our community was also called Yo- called Yoda. 

J.R.: Okay. 

Arnel: And that was Anna Sarao. 

J.R.: Oh, okay. 

Arnel: So, Anna Sarao is the founder of Body Rock or Bust A Groove dance competition.

Probably the most iconic artistic director of Culture Shock San Diego. Pretty much a mentor to most of the San Diego dance leaders that have been around for a while. So I also loved it because we had the same name. Mm. And she's definitely my sister. So that's why I think it was really hard, 'cause she passed away last November.

Very quick too and very sudden from, you know, a brain tumor. And- I felt like my right-hand person was gone. Mm. And I think that I- that identity as Yoda felt so much heavier- ... if that makes sense. 

J.R.: I think when you have peers and contemporaries around, you can s- you can kind of assume it knowing that there's [00:25:00] other, you know, other sages around.

Arnel: But every, every time you lose someone that's your peer, I, I am entering that stage where every time someone, one of my contemporaries leaves, I feel the pressure more. 

Right? Or I feel like, a desire to keep their legacy alive, to kind of assume the things that, that they tried to aspire to do. But that has kind of dissipated, you know, in, in a way.

I felt the pressure initially, and the deep sadness with her gone. And then with all the tribute performances we've had at Bust A Groove, and also this past weekend at Interwoven for Anna, by pe- so many people who loved and were impacted by her I realize it's not, like, my responsibility. I'm just a part of it.

Like, her legacy lives on in all the people that she impacted. And yeah, when that time comes for me too, and I'm not here, you know, I, I kinda see that as well. Like, I think I've made some [00:26:00] little I've left, left little imprints on people, and it won't be anyone's responsibility to be the new Yoda. It'll be a shared, a shared thing where everyone, you know, brings their brilliance to the table and, and we keep things moving forward, so.

So yeah. So I, I, I felt i- u- it used to feel heavy but now I don't think it feels heavy at all. 

J.R.: Thank you for sharing. I was gonna say, it is pretty much like Yoda, right? Like, outliving probably most of his peers along that- Mm-hmm ... 700 or something year old journey.

Yeah, yeah. And so you see people come and go, and you're still around, and you feel that responsibility. And I also love the idea or the concept of Yoda. When you hear about Yoda in, like, the peripheral stories, it's always he's teaching the younglings. Uh-huh. I think that's so pivotal of, like- Yeah ... him going directly to when they're g- not, not just, oh, you get to talk to Yoda once you're a master, but it's more of like, no, Yoda wants to be involved in the younglings' lives to help- 

Arnel: Mm-hmm

J.R.: to water those, those plants and those roots- Mm-hmm ... so that they grow into, like, the Jedi that they wanna become. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: passing along and making sure that there's a council, making [00:27:00] sure that there's people to pass along those legacies and whatnot. 

Arnel: Thank you. Yeah. It's definitely an honor, you know. Even though I don't take it so heavily one thing is I do take it seriously though because I know it's an honor to be regarded as a mentor or a role model in any space. So, anytime someone calls me, like, their mentor or a role model or a leader, like, I never take that lightly 'cause I still know that's a, an honor, a privilege, and so that's, that's definitely cool.

But because I am, like, stepping into fatherhood, however- 

J.R.: Yeah ... 

Arnel: I have reached a, a point in my dance journey where I was, where I feel like- I've done enough mentoring to

feel at peace with allowing others to take the mantle and move it forward, and not that I'm, like, disappearing but I just don't feel like I don't feel the pressure of it being my responsibility. I feel like there's so many amazing leaders out [00:28:00] here, you know, guiding the, the next generation, and then there are a lot of the new generation being trailblazers themselves.

So, so yeah. Perfect. Much more balanced. 

J.R.: Yeah, of course. Perfect segue 'cause I was gonna ask you about Awesome Shock LA, and you mentioned- Yeah ... launching it and- Yeah ... and hand, handing the torch to Andy. Mm-hmm. I wonder if you had any thoughts specifically, but you mentioned, you know, those first two seasons, and then now eventually handing it off and succession- Mm-hmm

plans. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. Do you wanna speak on that? 

Arnel: Yeah, so m- stepping into directorship for Awesome Shock LA, 'cause Andy, Andy Ho, shout out, Dr. Andy Ho. Mm. He's my Yoda brother, too. He's actually Grogu. 

J.R.: Oh. That's so cute. Yeah. 

Arnel: I love that. Yeah. So, What's different at this season of my life is I understand the importance of a succession plan.

Because, like with Culture Shock LA, I, I, I was in leadership for so, so long. And then I- we had a transition at the end, but I wish I had started it sooner. In Cult- Kaba Modern, there was no succession plan. Mm. You just hope [00:29:00] that let- leaders are gonna sh- Yeah ... show up, right? So, what I, what we decided with Awesome Shock is r- right when I started the position, I already had my exit plan, and that's kind of how I approach leadership if I ever join another board of directors, is being upfront.

I think it's so healthy for everyone involved, including yourself, to anytime you enter a leadership position, to already let people know what your, how long you intend to serve and what your plans would be for when you leave, right? If you start off that way, then you don't have to scramble, and then also the longevity and sustainability of the organization is just such, so much stronger.

So, what's really cool about Awesome Shock is Andy and I, going into even creating it, I told them that I have a two-season bandwidth. And within the second season, first season we'll be building, just con- continuing to build the, the infrastructure and foundation and operations of Awesome Shock LA.

But [00:30:00] the second season would be looking at who is possible and bringing in a lot of volunteers and leaders so that he doesn't feel like he's left hanging. Mm. Especially because I knew I was gonna move into fatherhood. So this one felt so smooth 'cause we actually we're interviewing directors now, but it's looking really promising to, that he will have a leadership team of four leaders, so including himself.

Which is even s- better and stronger than what we intended with him and, and a co-director. So I couldn't be more grateful That for, we call them the support squad, which are occupational therapy students, occupational therapists who volunteered this past season to be helped, and they don't have to come every rehearsal.

They come when they can. But that was our way to kinda see how they are in action, and if any of them have aspirations to really encourage and mentor them to apply for leadership. Mm. And then have, you know, a stipend-funded position. And so yeah, we, we have a [00:31:00] plethora of people who are qualified.

It's just a matter of, like, time commitment-wise if they can, if it aligns. But we're in a really, really good place, and that feels really pe- I'm more at peace leaving it knowing it's in such, such good hands. It's, it's still, like, emotional though, because I love Andy. I love... It's so fun creating with Andy.

And I- there's so many proud moments where you just look in the space and you're like, "These kids are growing. These families are being impacted, and they're amazing." You're creating this community of parents and dancers that never would have thought they would, you know, see themselves on the stage, you know?

So, so, so rewarding in so many aspects And I, to, because I started off with that idea of what that succession plan looks like that we cultivated together, I can be sad that I'm gonna miss them, but I can be excited for their future. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: I like I like this idea that you propose, I think a- [00:32:00] any good leader would probably agree, which is going in, starting a position with the end in mind- Yeah

like your succession plan time commitment or what- Mm-hmm ... you can commit to. It kind of reminds me of that idea of when you start a job, you have your, your resignation letter in your, you know, in your drawer ready. Similar, not the same, but similar- Yeah, yeah ... where it's like, you know, you're starting with the end in mind, and I think that's very smart, that I have not heard before, so thank you for that.

Arnel: Yeah, I don't think in the dance space it's, it's, it's normal at all. Yeah. 'Cause you just especially when you think about leaders in their 20s, it's all passion- Mm-hmm ... right?

J.R.: Like, it's gonna go on forever. We're gonna do- 

Arnel: Yeah ... like there's 

J.R.: no end to 

Arnel: anything. Yeah, there's no end. But but now with, you know, we learned during the pandemic how precious time is, you know?

Especially time together, so, I think that lesson has really taught us about, like, what does real sustainability look like and what's more realistic. And so yeah, it's, it's, it's such a sh- a form of compassion and care when you let people know, [00:33:00] you know, what your plan is. You have transparency.

J.R.: Mm, yeah, transparency, compassion, care. Absolutely. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: All right. I want to shift over now to I'm gonna bunch them together, but VIBE and 

IDL. 

J.R.: I know you're- Yeah ... you're very involved in both of them. 

Arnel: Yes. 

J.R.: And- Yeah ... specifically, I guess we can start with VIBE. Mm-hmm. But you mentioned that it's your favorite community competition.

Yeah. It's been running for over 30 years now. Yeah. You were there in its conception. I guess specifically I wanna ask- What makes VIBE feel different from everything else that you've been involved in or that you've seen and witnessed- Mm ... over the literal decades? 

Arnel: Yeah, I'm just so proud of Jason Park and Sonya Park and Yoske and the entire team too, Devera.

One, they're just incredible humans to work with. They've all been d- it's fully staffed by dancers. They, they all came from different dance families. They've they've all organized events themselves. And so what I love about VIBE is, one, it's at the one of the most beautiful venues, the Segerstrom.

Mm. So, to be able to provide [00:34:00] dancers with the opportunity to be centered and celebrated on that stage is so incredible. And VIBE is always sold out, so the audience is very loud and hype and- Engaged. Yeah. Yeah. So as a dancer, you feel that ultimate performance experience that I think is incredible.

But what I love about VIBE specifically is their innovation, so they're always innovating the production. But even the creativity from what are the judges' gift bags gonna look like- Mm ... or I don't know if you know this, but when we do judge tr- orientation, they have a fully decked out catered dinner- 

J.R.: Oh, wow

Arnel: s- in the, in the in the green room. So they really feel like they're having a sit-down dinner- 

J.R.: Mm ... 

Arnel: while we're going over this. Wow. So that level of creativity and commitment to showing people that their time is precious and that they're, we're, there's so much appreciation baked, and that culture of appreciation [00:35:00] is so rare.

And also- even just when you think about all of the staff part of the Vibe experience is to make sure that everyone understands that the ethos is of serving the dancers. So all the dancers have posters with their name on it. And I, it makes my heart happy when I see the teams, like, taking a picture with their Vibe poster.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And just documenting their their participation in the event with so much pride because that's what it's designed for. It's, it's designed to really, like, appreciate, center, and celebrate dancers who are putting in all this work to, for this competition. So, so yeah, out of all the com- community competition, this one just has, pulls at my heartstrings because I still see the team investing so much.

And also, I'm just be transparent without saying numbers, but the Vibe team comple- continues to elevate what people get paid. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: And out of the community teams being [00:36:00] on this more limited budget they continue to commit to paying as much as they can versus, oh, the event's getting bigger, there's more profit in my pocket.

Mm. They're really looking at how much can we afford, cover our bases, pay, cover all the expenses, pay ourselves, and still elevate that appreciation for everyone participating. So you know, the competition, the prize to compete hasn't changed. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: But what they're paying people has changed. 

J.R.: Wow. 

Arnel: And that's, that's what real community feels like to me.

I mean, that, that's an example of community to me, you know? Mm. And that's something I can be super proud to be a part of. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: I like that. Safe to say, I, I did not know the, the spread or the catering. I've never been a judge. Yeah, it's- I've never been, 

Arnel: that's crazy. It's serious. It's like a, like three salads.

Yeah, yeah. Focaccia bread and, you know, pasta. Wow. And, and yeah, it's, it's always, it's always done so well. Yeah. And a lot of that is also designed by [00:37:00] Jason Park's wife Michelle, who's brilliant- Mm ... at that too, but the fact that they commit the, the budget to do that and the time to do that is really, really incredible.

It just gets better every year. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. So now IDL.

Arnel: Mm-hmm ... 

J.R.: I know it's apples and oranges, not really like a what's better- No ... but like what is, what does IDL mean to you and, I guess conceptually? Mm-hmm. And then also, what made you say yes to being a head judge? Like, what was that? 

Arnel: Yeah, I mean, s- it was an int- interesting time too because a couple years ago I had really pulled back from judging.

I was almost semi-retired from judging really focusing more on dance education and empowerment and, you know, 'cause I really wanted to start Awesome Shock and I wanted to teach. But IDL, well, one thing that distinguishes it is it's trying to be a, a dance league and really frame dance as a dance sport.

So not only artistry, but also a- as an, as- Like an athlete ... as an athlete. Right. So creative and athlete. So I thought that was interesting to begin [00:38:00] with. Connor actually, who's the cre- one of the CEO of STEEZY and now the CEO of of IDL, he actually brought the idea up to me, like, years and years and years ago.

He was like, "Maybe we can connect Bodyrock and Vibe and all the existing competitions and create a league." 

Mm-hmm. 

But I was like, "I don't think that's gonna work," because each of those competitions has its own, like, mission and vision- Right ... and all different leaders. That's really, really hard for them to, like, ask them to sacrifice their individual journeys to make one big league.

But I said, "I think you're gonna have to build it from ground up." So then I didn't think that years later- Mm ... they're like, "Okay, we got the investors." Yeah. And then Alec, who is le- director of operations, he is someone that I knew. He was, he was a volunteer for Culture Shock LA, and then he ended up being moving and then joining GRV.

And so I knew him before he even moved here as a volunteer for Culture Shock LA, so I knew his heart was in the right place. He loves this community, and his dream was to move to California to be a [00:39:00] part of it, and then ended up on GRV. So he ended up joining STEEZY, and he was the one who approached me in IDL, and he said, "All right.

Our vision is to pay all the dancers that are gonna be a part of this pro league, and to really make sure that all of these pro teams not only get paid, but they're set up for sponsorships, and they're really celebrated kinda like franchises, like the Lakers or the, the Chicago Bulls." I thought that was, like, so interesting.

I'm like, "How are you gonna do that?" You know? And then they showed me the format, which is really incredible, where you have these match-ups. And then their vision was to have seasons, so it's kinda like a Laker game, right? It's gonna be like the Lakers versus the Bulls. Mm. And then you go to another city, and it's gonna be a different match-up.

Mm. And then all of those points add up, and then there's the finals, right? So I thought it was like, wow, it's really something so different. So they s- I, I said, "If, if you..." So they wanted me to be the head judge. I said, "Okay, like, how much say do [00:40:00] I have in the criteria?" You know? He said, "Actually, we're gonna rewrite it.

Like, you have, you have the to- We trust you if you have ideas on to reformat it." And so yeah, I looked at that thing, and I was like, "Okay, yeah, I have ideas to change it." I asked for a co-head judge with me, Nick Beijing. He is the creator of Hit the Floor. Mm. Hit the Floor is, like, the biggest dance competition in Canada.

He each of his events, like, boast over, like, 10,000 people. 

J.R.: Wow. 

Arnel: So it's crazy. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: Has... And he's really, really g- he has so much integrity, and he has, he's so good with, like, rules and guidebooks and things like that, and training. So, I said, "If we can get Nick on board, I will sign on." And then they threw me the highest number I've ever had as a head judge, beyond anything I got paid.

Mm. And I was like, "This is a sign, because this is gonna help fund my surrogacy journey- Oh ... as well." 

J.R.: Yeah. '

Arnel: Cause at first I wasn't leaning towards it, 'cause I was like, "This is gonna take away from me grinding to earn money." [00:41:00] For our surrogacy journey Right ... but then this is the answer 

J.R.: Mm ... 

Arnel: you know, to, and I actually get to do something that I'm excited about as well, and be part of something, a new offering.

So the cool thing about IDL is it's not trying to replace anything that's out there. It's trying to add. Right. And something different. And then when I experienced the first one, the production value is so high. Mm. And when I also look around at what they have, what they've invested in, I'm like, "This event's a loss."

Yeah. This is a financial loss. Right, right, right. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: So they're throw- I already, like, me and Nick were like, "Th- none of this makes sense financially." So I already know that the creators, because they're again just like Vibe, they're all dancers they believe in the vision so much they're throwing their life savings.

They're getting these investors to come in to make it work and, and maybe lose money for the first two years- Mm-hmm ... but in the end, reach that end goal of making this something new [00:42:00] and something that dancers, something viable for dancers where maybe one day a, a dancer could get sponsored and paid the same as a basketball athlete- 

J.R.: Right

Arnel: as they deserve to be. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: Right? 

J.R.: Yeah. I mean, anyone who's been in the competition space knows that those are, those are not part-time hours. Especially if you're at that level. Yeah, it's 

Arnel: a lot of sacrifice. Yeah. 

J.R.: And, and the number of people you're working with and the- Yeah ... effort that goes into it.

And so to make it into, like, a sport or a league that can financially support these dancers or to some level- Yeah ... that's such a monumental thing. 

Arnel: It's really cool too, because they feature the teams so well, like, in all of their marketing. Like, they always have a roster for each- Mm ... e- each city. Like, Brotherhood's roster for Vancouver are these 20 dancers.

Mm. All, all the teams have 20 dancers. That's there to make it equitable. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: But they also have individual cards, so individually. So like, one day, hopefully this league really blows up. Yeah, the le- the, the teams will get sponsored, but y- the individuals will also get sponsored [00:43:00] by Nike or by- Yeah

Adidas. So the vision and possibility of this, the potential is so great for dancers, you know? And, and again, we have also other battles that are incredible, like Red Bull, and there's also another battle called International Dance League. Like, IDL isn't trying to be anything of those, 'cause those exist and those should thrive.

Mm-hmm. It's really adding another possibility, another offering for da- another pathway for dancers, and that's exciting to be a part of. 

J.R.: Yeah. Last thing I wanna ask on that too is, so your function within- Yeah ... IDL- Mm-hmm ... what do you hope to impact or leave upon or pres- impress upon as it goes into the future of like, this is what I wanna make sure is the focus of what you guys are doing in, in my role and how I contribute- Mm

to this space? 

Arnel: Yeah, so Nick and I we co-created the guidebook, so there's a training manual. So all judges, we do den- we do a training at every stop. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: And so, we wanna have [00:44:00] continue to elevate the training of these judges because we want the dancers to feel like they have the best judges in the world because they're going through this training.

I also get the opportunity because I believe when I look at these dance competitions they are comprised of so many dance art forms, whether that's like vogue, krump hip hop house, right? So, because those art forms are being judged, it's important that the judges reflect- ... have our experience in, in these art forms and connected.

So I have the chance to work with Alec and Nick to also curate a judge panel, the, of judges that are not only revered and famous for their commercial work or, or because they're famous dance instructors, but they have experience in actually directing groups. 'Cause right now- That's different ... what, yeah, what's different than, in other competitions I've judged, I have, I mean, I, I'm not gonna name any competitions, but I have judged alongside a person that's [00:45:00] like famous, like went viral on TikTok- 

but they have no experience being on a team or judge- or directing a team or c- or choreographing for a team and then they're, they're judging teams. 

J.R.: Right. 

Arnel: Right? It doesn't f- seem fair and as a director or a dancer myself, I would be frustrated with that. So with IDL, I have the chance to- Really put people that I respect as good humans who care about serving dancers, who also have experience choreographing for, directing and/or being in dance choreograph- dance choreography teams, so that the people in the seat to give these scores are people that all the dancers, whether it's a high score or a low score, can respect the scores that they're, they're giving.

J.R.: And that's not something that I can say all competitions do well. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Arnel: Right? Yeah ... even d- diversity as well, I wanna ensure that most of these art forms are Black-created or Black and brown-created, and many of these are also s- some of these, like [00:46:00] vogue and waacking, are from the queer community, so that has to be on the judge panel as well.

We have to always have queer representation. We also have to have wo- men and women and thems, you know, these, whatever you identify. And we always need to have Black representation on every judge panel. Otherwise, that's also disrespectful to where these, the communities where these art forms come from.

 And so I have an opportunity with Nick and Alec to, to bring that standard to this competition. And IDL is willing to back it up by also paying these judges the highest rate that I- I've ever heard of for a judge as well. 

So production, how the dancers are being p- treated by being paid and taken care of, and then the judges themself that's a high, it's a higher standard than I've seen out there.

So that's really fun to be- Yeah ... a part of that. Yeah. 

J.R.: I love that a lot, and maybe it's a, an insider thing, but again, having, you having been in the competitions, judging [00:47:00] competitions, being around it, and I've competed in them as well- 

Arnel: Yeah ... 

J.R.: you don't, you wouldn't think that judging is something that you can optimize or tweak, but it actually is one of the most important things.

Like, people put so much- Yeah ... work into their sets, and they wanna feel- Yeah ... like they're being judged adequately and with integrity. Mm-hmm. But then, like you said, there's a lot of discrepancies in the standards of each competition. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: And so you're like, "Okay, let's just raise the standards to what we think is appropriate and what makes sense- Yes and to give representation," and I think that is such a s- you would think it's a small thing, but it honestly, I think it's, like, such a big thing, so I love that. 

Arnel: Oh. Yeah. Thanks, fam. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: It's definitely, like, It takes a lot of work, and it's always gonna be a work in progress because we're always gonna have new ideas on how to elevate it.

But I love and appreciate IDL's commitment to, you know, putting their money where, you know, their mouth is and, and really making it the best. So I'm really, really proud of what we've done so far and excited for the future. 

J.R.: Yeah. So, yeah. That's very exciting. So I wanna move really quick to reconnecting with the Philippines.

So you mentioned that, teaching workshops there and your babymoon. [00:48:00] Mm-hmm, 

Arnel: yeah. 

J.R.: Um, So what specifically pulled you back to the Philippines, and, and how was that- Mm ... overall experience? 

Arnel: So everything kind of aligned. The initial attention, intention was, 'cause I w- I know that once I become a dad it's gonna be harder to go back and teach workshops in the Philippines.

Mm. And the Philippines is one of my favorite, favorite places to teach because the dancers there are not only talented, as they are freaking talented- Yeah ... they're also just so appreciative, so present so passionate about dance and c- and history and her- history, herstory, theirstory. 

Yeah. 

I just enjoy it so much, and it, it feels like I'm, I'm really at my w- my roots, you know.

So I wanted to teach a workshop, you know, go back and teach a worksh- sneak that into the babymoon. And then I wanted to also do island hopping, and, like, Pala- Palawan is one of my favorite places in the world, and I wanted Dustin to experience that so he can understand our culture and why I love it so much.

So that w- that's gonna be hard to, it'll be hard to do island hopping and jumping in the water with, you know, newborns. Right, 

J.R.: right, [00:49:00] right. 

Arnel: Not, probably not possible. Not for a while. Yeah. Yeah. So we decided we wanted to make that our babymoon, but what's really incredible is it ended up aligning. The same exact week I was planning to be in the Philippines was the week of Body Rock Asia- Mm

which Anna Sarao created. And so I had a chance to be there, you know, to do a tribute to her, and that was the unexpected blessing that was... You know, there were a lot of tears, and it was very emotional because that was one of her most proudest accomplishment, was to bring the competition she created back to the homeland and to see it, like, filled, you know, with so many brilliant teams.

So to be able to go there for the first time, and I've never experienced it, but to be there when they were commemorating Anna I just felt- I guess the word of this year is alignment 

J.R.: Oh ... 

Arnel: where things are just meant to be, and some of it you plan. It's kinda like what I said before- Yeah ... you know, the balance between making things happen and letting things happen.

That was one of those moments where, [00:50:00] like, yeah, we planned this trip, but it ended up being so much more. 

J.R.: Mm. So the, so the show was in Philippines, in Asia? Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Wow, that's, that's crazy. 

Arnel: So I ended, they ended up, "Since you're here, can you judge it?" Yeah, 

J.R.: yeah. You're like, "Hey." 

Arnel: So I ended up as a judge.

Wait, you're, you're 

J.R.: in Palawan? Which is, Oh, we're having it in Palawan. No, I'm just kidding. 

Arnel: So I was like, oh, man, it's an honor to- Yeah ... it's an honor to attend, because I've always wanted to support it, and it never, it never aligned. But as a, a incredible joy and, and blessing to be able to attend and judge and serve the dancers there.

Mm-hmm. So that was really, really cool. 

J.R.: Yeah. That's am- that's awesome. All right, so now, now that we're talking about you know, alignment and chapter, so I wanna ask, leaving one chapter behind or a chapter of dance and embracing the unknown and what is ahe- ahead for fatherhood- Yeah ... so what does leaving a chapter behind actually mean for you?

Arnel: Yeah, it's interesting 'cause, like, you know how I, I really asked at the top of this year is, like, I wanna perform, and I haven't wanted tr- In, in the last, like, maybe five [00:51:00] years, I have no desire to perform. I, I, I, I enjoy the communal experience- Mm ... and I, I will often, like, for an anniversary performance, I'll say, yeah, I'll do it.

It's like 'cause I wanna be around people. Right ... but the actual enjoyment of- being on stage. Right. I've kind of lost that over the years. And then I wanted it this year, and I was able to fulfill that, but in, like, doing these tributes for Anna, and then also these alumni performances doing Rise and Reclaim that Gigi and Ala Ban created and- Mm

choreographing their closer. So, I had a sense of completion and s- and sen- as a performer this year- 

J.R.: Mm. 

Arnel: Mm ... where, like, I don't really, not that I don't wanna perform, but I feel like it's been s- fully satisfied this year, and I'm at peace with it. And if I don't perform again I think I'll be okay with that, you know?

So I'm not cl- closing the door, but I'm totally at peace if th- if this was our, my last ones. Yeah. And and just ready to kinda be open to what's next. I [00:52:00] think what's next is gonna be still teaching, 'cause I feel like I can see myself in dance education for a while. And then IDL already asked me to sign on for next year, so I think- Mm

I'm gonna sign on there. It's one, it's a great job to have to, you know, help fund my fatherhood. Yeah. But two, I just love the team, and I'm excited about the vision of it, and it could be my way of contributing and being a part of something new still at this part of my journey, and probably taking the wisdom or experiences I've had and being able to apply it to something new that's pretty exciting.

J.R.: Mm. So. So continuing to be Yora then is essentially what you- 

Arnel: In a, in a new space. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So for fatherhood, I'm curious, is there anything that you're a little scared about and/or is there anything you're specifically excited about? 

Arnel: Okay, what I'm excited about, and people think about growth as something to be [00:53:00] scared of, but for me, I'm, like, excited to grow in ways that I didn't even know I had the capacity to grow.

I don't know if that makes sense. 

J.R.: No, yeah, yeah. 

Arnel: I feel like I'm gonna... All these years from what I hear from all parents, I hear one common thing. They say it's the hardest thing that, it's the hardest thing, but also the thing that you're gonna love the most in your entire life. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Arnel: So it's a, it's a thing that's, that's you'll be so the most grateful for.

So, I am excited and confident that that these new, I'm gonna expand in so many ways, and there's gonna be growth, individually and also as a couple. What I'm afraid of is I'm gonna be hella tired. Oh, yeah. And, 'cause everyone also tells me about the zombie years, and I have, I don't, I mean, obviously I haven't ex- I've experienced that level of exhaustion from, like, dance stuff, right?

But it's different when you're, like, res- holding babies and responsible for a human life. Right. I just, I've been exhausted and responsible just for myself. 

[00:54:00] Right. 

But that is the only thing I'm scared of, is, like, people already said I'm gonna experience a, a level of exhaustion I've never felt, and that is pretty scary.

Mm-hmm. But you know, I'm not, luckily I'm not you know, I'm not on this journey by myself. I'm with Dustin, and there are plenty of people who also have done it by themselves and done it well. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Arnel: So I have faith that it's all gonna work out fine, you know, and, and I- I'll, I'll figure a way to power through.

J.R.: Yeah. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: I was, I was, as you were saying that, I c- I was connecting the, the, the gaps or connecting that idea of, like, exhaustion. I'm like, "Oh, we've done that before," you know, like- Yeah, yeah, the- ... like sunrise practices ... the Heaven 

Arnel: nights- 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly ... or the Heaven 

Arnel: weeks. 

J.R.: Heaven weeks, and then just, like, going straight to, from dance, sunrise, going straight to work or class, et cetera- Oh my gosh

just doing that. But then you're right, like, well, I'm holding a baby now this time. So it's a little bit different than just knocking out in my car. A little bit different. Yeah. A little different. So I wanna wrap this up with so you kind of already mentioned this, but you know, dance is the thing [00:55:00] that has been a core part of your life.

It's the thing- Yeah ... that saved you, the thing that's, you know, gave you belonging and community. This might kinda be the same thing as what you just said, but what do you think fatherhood is going to ask of you that dance never did? 

Arnel: Oh, wow, that's a deep question. A really, really, really good one, too. Oh, wow

I don't know if this is gonna sound morbid, but I think fatherhood is gonna, might ask me to die to myself- 

J.R.: Hmm ... 

Arnel: in a way of, like, shedding who I was and stepping into something new, you know? Because in one way I will be carrying the skills that I have as a human being into fatherhood but I think there's gonna be so much uncharted territory that it's, it's also gonna birth and expose both my greatest weaknesses and my greatest strengths.

Hmm. So, I'm almost gonna have to really just [00:56:00] embrace, like, I kind of think of it as kind of like wh- caterpillar to, to butterfly, that I'm not throwing away all of who I am, but I'm definitely turning into a completely new person. I also know most parents I've talked to just says you see the world completely different once you become a dad.

And I've been a father figure and I've already see- seen, have seen the world different carrying and sharing s- so many, like, intimate experiences with so many different dancers, and that already changed me so much. I think fatherhood is gonna completely unlock some- something that's, that's gonna be so deep and so profound, and, and I'm excited for it.

I'm ready for it. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Arnel: So I, I never thought at fif- in my 50s I would be stepping into this chapter. But I wonder if maybe, maybe this Yoda experience so far is, has been the preparation for me [00:57:00] to be the best version of father that I could possibly be. We'll see.

J.R.: I love that. All right.

So now y- we have made it to the end. Thank you so much for everything. That, I think will, that's a perfect way to stop this. 

Arnel: Yeah. 

J.R.: But gratitude. So we al- always end with gratitude, so Arnel, what are you grateful for?

Arnel: I'm grateful for every single person that believed in me. Thus, I, I think, as I think about being a, a dad and that I, I wanna make sure that my children know that I believe in them, that I see their light, and I'll, I love them for exactly who they are. I'm grateful for all, and there's so many people who helped me believe, like, I have worth in this world, and not only s- saw me, but celebrated me and, and encouraged me forward.

So, that's a lot of people. I know that's a big answer, but I'm in that, I'm in that space right now of really thinking about all my, like, close friends, my family, [00:58:00] and everyone who's done that for me. Including you, like, having me here and- 

J.R.: Thank you ... 

Arnel: even finding worth in my s- in my journey and my story.

All of that, like, means a lot to me. So, yeah. 

J.R.: Thanks, Arnel. All right, so last question for you. Do you have any final ask for the audience, or any final takeaways, or any final notes you wanna leave to the audience?

Arnel: I would say two things. I would say, one trust the timing of your life. I hope what I shared today can just be an example of how things can turn out so different so differently than you imagined, you know, growing up or or even five years ago. But it's, it's... Once you trust the timing of your life, it allows the space and possibility for things to unfold as they're meant to be.

And so, I would say trust the timing of your life. On the other side of that, I would say take a chance on yourself, too. So, leave, leave that space [00:59:00] to to have faith that things are, you know, meant to be and are gonna happen in their own divine timing. But if you feel in your gut that you have a dream that you really want you deserve it.

We, we all deserve to be our fullest authentic self. We're all deserving at least of reaching for our dreams. So bet on yourself and go for it. Two things are gonna happen. You're either gonna achieve it, or if you don't achieve it, you're gonna learn something new. So it's a win. Just go for it.

J.R.: Awesome. We'll end it with that. Thank you, Arnel, so much. Let me... well, just for the audience, so if you wanna check out what Arnel's up to, you can check out... We will link his socials and his website in the show description, so @Arnelcalvario and as well as drArnel.com. 

Arnel: Yeah, and you know what's so funny?

The last interview we did was... I, I made that promise. I said, "Okay, this year I'm gonna work on my website." Yeah, yeah. And because I said that, yeah, now I have- Nice ... a website. I 

J.R.: saw it. Yeah, 

Arnel: looks 

J.R.: nice. So. 

Arnel: Yeah. Thank you so much. So yeah, it's just the website and Instagram is the best way- 

J.R.: Awesome ... to reach 

Arnel: me.

Yeah. 

J.R.: Cool. [01:00:00] All right. So now let me end with my own little monologue as well. So Arnel, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. It felt like when you watch your favorite movie and you find out there's a sequel coming out, and now I'm just- ... watching, it's like I'm watching the new Star Wars that I loved, and I'm like, "I'm so excited for this episode."

Thank you. And so talking to you was like watching, like, Star War- a new Star Wars movie. So I appreciate that. And so I'll do my final sign-off. Thank you guys for being here. I appreciate it. Be sure to like, follow, subscribe, five stars wherever you're listening to. Yes. Leave Arnel love in the comments below of course, as always.

 And a reminder to always be kind to other people, especially yourself, and remember that you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen. So thank you guys for being here. 

Arnel: Thank you.