J.R.: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of One Thousand Gurus where we share the stories and lessons from people of all walks of life. And I'm your host, J.R. Yonocruz.

Today's guest is Andrew Simbol. Andrew Simbol is a former dancer, director, coach, choreographer, and instructor with deep roots in the KM Kollective family, Culture Shock LA, Tustin High School Dance Team, and the Jimmy Defore Dance Center.

Senior digital marketing leader by day, serial hobbyist, by night, musician, sound explorer, plant daddy, marketplace maven, and hospitable homeowner fluent in memes and puns.

You can find him making music with his band Second Wave, supporting their Reclaim and Rise community, or somewhere on the dance floor around South OC.

So I thoroughly enjoyed this episode and connecting with Simbal after about 10 years. We did a really good deep dive for a recording that was just under one hour, but I realized that during this chat we're definitely cut from the same cloth and are in a similar mindset of how we approach life despite being in different phases or stages of life which I really appreciated about him and him sharing his journey and insights with us.

In [00:01:00] a nutshell, I'd say he's another fellow analytical creative, quote unquote, with a multitude of interests, passions, and hobbies, which I absolutely love. We chat about his dance background and main life influences, his pivot from accounting to marketing when he was following the signs of what he found himself excelling in in school, and how he has overall progressed his career over many years to become a senior leader in marketing teams. We also discussed the Japanese concepts of Kaizen, Kintsugi, and how that has tied into his own life moving through different phases that we all go through, which sometimes requires us to do the hard work of putting ourselves back together. We dive into why house music feels so universal to us, and then we end off with some great closing thoughts on what's next for him in his pursuit of joy.

I absolutely love this conversation and will enjoy re-listening to it again a couple times once it's live.

So without further ado, please enjoy this heartwarming conversation with Andrew Simbol.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus. Simbol, welcome to the show 

Simbol: Thank you. [00:02:00] Yeah, look at that. Thank you so much. 

J.R.: You get the in-studio applause. Thank you for being here, man. I appreciate it. 

Simbol: Thank you. Thanks for having me here. 

J.R.: Yeah it's nice to reconnect. Like I was just telling you off-camera, this podcast is half an excuse just to connect with people who I like and admire and wanna hear their, their thoughts and insights and life lessons.

So it's, it's also nice to come back in studio as well. It's always nice to hang out with Solomon at Podcast Place. Shout out if you ever want podcast services in Long Beach, highly recommend. And yeah, we have some really good topics that we wanna get into. But first off, I wanna start off with how I know you.

So just like 99.9% of my guests, you are a fellow dancer, and Filipino also, right? Right? 

Simbol: Yeah, Ev- I think so. 

J.R.: Yeah. Last time you checked, right? 

Simbol: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: So you, you fit in this Venn diagram of the majority of my guests- Yeah ... just happen to be Filipino dancers. Of 

Simbol: course, yep. 

J.R.: The only other Venn diagram you're missing is a female content creator, but other- Oh.

But otherwise, you fit most of the other ones. So yeah, we know each other through Kaba Modern or KM Legacy, and [00:03:00] I think the only real interaction that we had, we had that lunch that one time- Yeah ... back in Ir- was it Irvine, Costa Mesa, something like that? 

Simbol: Somewhere in OC, yeah. 

J.R.: Somewhere in OC, right?

And so we had talked a little bit about that, and we'll get into your career, but you also had some really interesting topics about specifically Kaizen and Kinsu- Kintsugi? 

Simbol: Yeah, Kintsugi. 

J.R.: Kintsugi, yeah, so that's, I'm pretty excited to dig into those. And I guess the general theme of loss, moving forward, transformation, improvement, et cetera, which I think are, are pretty universal.

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And what else am I missing? You're a dope dancer. You, you danced way before I did on Kaba Modern. So your era was, like, the era that my generation was looking up to, like, "Oh my God, Kaba Modern's so sick." 

Simbol: Oh, man. 

J.R.: And I was telling Yoske at the, the wedding a couple weeks ago- Yeah ... that 'cause we did Breathe, Shaun Duong's piece, right?

Yeah. And that's, that was, like, my dream, "Oh my God, this is the coolest team ever. This, this piece is, like, my favorite piece ever." And so before I joined the team, I obsessively watched that video, like, thousands of times- Right ... 'cause I'm like, "Everyone is so cool." And so that team, and you guys as well, and the [00:04:00] KM6 that were on TV was, like, my end of high school inspirations.

Wow. And then joining the team, and then now dancing that piece at Saaya's wedding- 

Simbol: Yeah ... 

J.R.: with, like, Yosuke and Hikari and everyone else, I'm like, "Dude, this is so surreal." 

Simbol: That's amazing. So you never performed that routine before? 

J.R.: Nope, mm-mm. Oh, dang. It was, like, right before my time. Exactly. Yeah. And I was like, "This is never actually would happen- Yeah

unless it's someone's wedding. Like, 'Hey, let's bring back this.'" So, like, it was a rare opportunity, so I'm like, "I am so down." 

Simbol: That's so sick. And you killed it, too. 

J.R.: Thank you. Yeah, you killed it. Thank you. Yeah, and it's such a dope piece, and it was cool to see everyone dance, Culture Shock as well- Yeah ... and Kinjaz, and everyone was just so dope.

Simbol: Oh, yeah. It was awesome. 

J.R.: Yeah, it's like I don't know if you've ever been to a wedding like that, but it felt like a dance showcase of, like, a stacked group of people. 

Simbol: Dude, 

J.R.: yeah. It's like half wedding, half dance showcase. 

Simbol: Yeah, I mean, that's typical, classic dancer wedding, right? Yeah. You j- you have a, you wanna showcase what you do with your family, right?

And- Even Saaya crushing it with, like, singing with her dad. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah. 

Simbol: Like, yeah. It was a, it was a full-on show. That was awesome. And just seeing everybody, even, like, not just friends, like, as dancers, but, like, with Jae, with Curry [00:05:00] Doe- Mm ... and Josh S- and Jennie and Sam from LA. Just everybody's in the mix there, so.

J.R.: Yeah. 

Simbol: Yeah. The network. Felt a, a lot of love there. 

J.R.: Yeah, it was super dope. What was I gonna say? Oh, I lost my thought. Yeah, it's cool to see everyone, the night market, the performances- Yeah ... the singing. Oh, the One Piece. Freaking Saaya played, like, this you know, a, like, a piano One Piece introduction for her, like, walking up- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

the ceremony. I was like, "Oh, I'm about to cry." Yeah. "I love this song. It's One Piece." Saaya is also a really big One Piece fan- Yeah ... for those of you who don't know. So, yeah, really, I was like, "Dang it, she took, she took it." Oh, God, got there first. Anyways. Yeah. All right, let's move forward. So that's our context.

Any clarifications on what you've been up to? I know it's been, like, almost 10 years since we connected, but yeah, what have you been up to? 

Simbol: Oh, man. A lot of good stuff, you know? Right now, I mean, a lot of good stuff. So I mean, y- digital marketing by day, you know, so leading teams and, and working on, like, paid social activations and, you know.

But, you know, at, at night it's just yeah, serial hobbyist. I just have a lot of things I wanna do, you know, whether it's, like, playing music, de-stressing, [00:06:00] working out, or just play- you know, just going out and learning something new. So yeah, nowadays I'm just yeah, I mean, like, nowadays it's just gotta stay creative somehow, you know?

Yeah. So nowadays, like, you'll probably find me dancing somewhere in OC, just anywhere there's house music. You know, I just feel like as a full-time working professional, right, being behind a chair for, like, you know, like, I don't know, 40, 50-hour week sometimes it could take a toll, and you need to move around.

And sometimes a standup desk helps, but you know, like, it's, you still need to breathe, have some, a, a creative lifestyle afterwards. Like, you know, so for me, that outlet for me is music, you know, playing piano, like, in between my breaks or, like, afterwards, you know, just something to untangle this, the use of this executive functioning skills, like, throughout the day.

Sometimes you just wanna not think, you know? And so that's where piano comes in. Just cleaning, organizing, you know, laundry, you know? 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Simbol: Just basic lifestyle things where it just kinda just gets you outside of your head a little bit. 

J.R.: Mm, I like that. [00:07:00] You're such a creative person it seems like based on what you do, and it's, I feel like I'm in a similar era of, yeah, I work and, you know, I have all these different relationships and hobbies and whatnot- Yeah

but I feel like putting the gas on the hobby creative side of it, especially dance and music and whatnot- 

Simbol: Yeah ... 

J.R.: is such a key, a key element to, I don't know how to put this, but maybe longevity or maybe, like, fulfillment, maybe, like, happiness, staying plugged in, energized, like, energy-wise. 

Simbol: Right. Right. 

J.R.: So I like that a lot.

I wanna... I- if you have nothing else, I wanted to go back to your origin. So, Andrew Simbol as a person, like, where did you grow up, and what were your main influences? 

Simbol: Let's see. Where did I grow up? I, I was born in Long Beach, and, Mm ... I was raised in Norwalk, you know, right next to Cerritos.

Locally 

J.R.: grown. 

Simbol: Yeah, so just been here SoCal. And my origin story I guess life's, my, like- But dancing gave me so much life. Obviously, that is kind of like where my identity lives in and the origin story was kind of, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but for dance, there was [00:08:00] DDR. 

J.R.: Oh, okay, okay.

Simbol: I was like, "Maybe if I could get these steps down, I could have rhythm and dance," you know? 

J.R.: Ah. 

Simbol: And so that, you know, that was like my origin story back in high school in Long Beach Town Center with a couple of my friends. And but that was back when you know, I was also still wrestling, and after I did wrestling, and in high school, I was like, "Well, what's next?"

'Cause to me, I just like, when you're young, for me, I wanted to explore different things. I didn't wanna, like, commit to just one thing, you know, 'cause I'm like, there's so- a lot to learn, skateboarding, whatever, right? But dancing was the thing that I felt like I most connected with. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: You know? So breakdancing in the B-boy community.

I mean, shout out Eddie Boy, 'cause he is the one who kind of like helped me trained. He trained. He basically welcomed me. You know, like, this guy's, like, super cool guy in high school and super talented but super humble. And so he kinda showed me the ropes into, like, break dancing and got me involved with his crew, Forks and Spoons and Cerritos.

And yeah, super cool. Like, and b-boying has always taught me, like, how to be original, [00:09:00] be my own person. Obviously, like, you know, s- that's it. You know, you could bite and rewrite. It was Crazy Legs said that. But to me it was a form of, like, finding your own self and your own style through those movements, right?

And so with, with b-boying, you know, I think it was just one vehicle for my creative expression, and that's why I wanted to branch out. And I feel like that's where Eddie Boy kind of, being connected with him landed me to Culture Shock Los Angeles, actually, before Kaba Modern. So, back then, it was in 2003, they were auditioning for a breaking crew.

And- 

J.R.: Oh ... 

Simbol: it was a small crew, but me and Eddie Boy made it in. At that time, I didn't know what a Culture Shock was. I just wanted, you know... We just, me and Eddie Boy hang out all the time, and I just asked him if he wants to ride to that auditions that he wanted to go to. Yeah. And I auditioned with him, and my life changed because that's how I met Arnel- 

J.R.: Mm

Simbol: that we all know and love. He's a, you know, he welcomed me and Eddie Boy to the family, and I didn't know what that really meant, but he sa- [00:10:00] said it in such a loving way that you know, it took me a while to actually get out of, outside of breaking 'cause I was just stuck with breaking. But they taught me locking.

They taught me house. They taught me everything. And so for, like, two years, so, yeah, did CSLA for, like, two years and then d- did Kaba Modern, you know, like, 2005 to 2008. And then, yeah, Legacy from then on, you know. Mm. So, I'd say that's probably, like, I guess my origin story from, like, how I started developing an identity, you know.

'Cause before dance I was known as Little Joe, like, my brother's- Oh ... I have an older brother named Joseph. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, 

Simbol: yeah. And to me I was like, "Okay, that's cool," but I wanted my own thing 'cause I would, whatever he did, I did. When he bought turntables, I started playing turntables. When he worked out, I would work out.

He, he did wrestling, I did wrestling. So dancing was the one thing that I actually did on my own that I, I kind of didn't claim, but I just kinda kept pursuing that. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: You know? And I think, Yeah, ever since then, it's just been a part of my life, and here I am now, not [00:11:00] competitively dancing, but just dancing as a creative release and a cr- expression for myself to just kind of breathe through life.

J.R.: Mm, I like that. I also resonate with the whole older sibling thing, 'cause of my sister, two years older, and she danced first. She also DDR'd first. And I was, Her name's MJ. I was MJ's little brother. Also followed her into dance, you know? And so I totally resonate with that. And so I know you're, by day profession, you're a digital marketer, right?

Simbol: Yep. 

J.R.: How did, how did you connect into that? Was it, like, a separate journey, or did somehow your creative pursuit, it led to that career path, or how did you get into it? 

Simbol: That's a good question. It just landed. Uh, You know, it just, everything connected, but I do know that if I could look back into my life, shape- 

J.R.: Did you go to school for marketing or anything? How did you- 

Simbol: Yeah. Okay. 

Yeah, I went to school I went to Fullerton College to get my business pre-reqs, and then Cal State Fullerton to get my marketing degree. But when I was declaring, about to declare my major, I was really at this crossroads to d- to... I was originally thinking, "I'm gonna be an accountant.

I'm gonna be a CPA just like my mom and my dad," 'cause I thought that was genetics. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Simbol: And I was like, [00:12:00] "Sure." 

J.R.: Sometimes it could be. 

Simbol: May- yeah, right? Yeah. But this time I was like, you know, you know, I was at a crossroads, and basically I looked at my grades and said, "Okay, well, accounting, maybe, like, some Bs, a few A's, a few Bs, maybe a C here," but marketing was, like, all A's, so Mm.

We're like- 

J.R.: Following the signs of, like, how you were doing. 

Simbol: Yeah. So yeah, it was my relationship at that time that kinda convinced me, you know, to pursue that. She's like, "That's actually, like, telling," you know? So I said, "You're right. I don't know if I wanna be balancing books all day," you know? Like, I wanna, I still wanna be creative.

And that's how I fell into marketing, is I then made the switch, you know, at the very last minute to just pursue something creative, because I felt like as dancers, choreographers, you know, like, hobbyists, I feel like I still need to use my brain in a creative way to be able to you know, just express myself, you know?

And maybe there are some creative way... I don't know. Maybe in accounting there are creative ways to kind of- 

J.R.: Sure ... 

Simbol: you know, you know, balance the books. Balance the books. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, like, T bal- T ledgers and whatnot, but... 

J.R.: Imagine a client is like, "Wow, you were so [00:13:00] creative in how you balanced my books in accounting.

I like how you do that. I'm also going to jail soon 'cause you 

Simbol: did-"

J.R.: I would like you to turn down the creativity and just do your job.

Simbol: That's hilarious. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, I like that. So I guess two questions. I know we won't stay on this for too long, but how... Like, your role, how did it progress from, you know, you graduated, wanted to do marketing- 

Simbol: Mm-hmm ... 

J.R.: until what you do today? Like, what is your overall function and how that progressed?

And then the second thing is really just takeaways for someone just heard you say you do, you do marketing. Yeah. And if they wanted to get into that field, what insights do you have to pass along to them? 

Simbol: Awesome. Yeah, so the first question where I'm at right now so I'm a senior director at Wpromote advertising agency out in El Segundo.

We service a, a handful of clients. I mean, from my, you know, growth path there, it's- I, you know, started off in just doing paid social in the, in the beginning maybe 13 years [00:14:00] ago. And it was an evolution, you know? I s- I stuck with one agency for three years and heavily focused on automotive, lower funnel, you know, reporting data, analytics, did some organic content, you know, creative strategies, you know.

And then my next em- employer, which is Y Marketing, where Mikey Andaya, also worked there and got that job, you know, through Alibon. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: And so it's all connected, right? Mm-hmm. This is why, like, dance is important, 'cause it helps you- Dance and 

J.R.: networks, yeah. 

Simbol: Exactly, you know? And so I, I thank, I thank them both, but that kind of opened me up to more, like, healthcare more automotive, but, you know, agriculture.

So working with the different industries with what I do and how can I best service them from a creative strategy perspective, you know, activation, execution, you know, op- performance optimization and all that. And it was until maybe, like, six, almost six years ago where I l- I am now here at Wpromote, where I've always wanted to be in entertainment.

And so when I got hired in they gave me an [00:15:00] entertainment client, and it's been very busy, but... And, you know, sometimes, like, the busyness can, like, deter people from staying sometimes. Mm. And some people obviously will leave for whatever reason, but I felt like this is my dream. I'm not gonna give up on it.

Like, my dream was... Well, I didn't think I w- later. I didn't think early in my life, I was like, "I wanna be, like, a marketer and crunching numbers," you know? Like, but for me, it's just if I'm gonna do something, I wanna explore it. So it's like one thing I never explored was entertainment, and it's fun.

Sometimes when you see some f- of your friends on your ads that you're promoting Mm. ... it's just kind of interesting, you know? And you get to see some data behind it and just it's all interconnected. So, where I'm at a- as a senior director is leading, managing teams, you know, training leaders to lead their team and their accounts.

So, to me, I have less hands-on keys. I could still be hands-on keys, which I kind of like, because I un- want to understand each platform: Meta, TikTok, Snapchat. I wanna understand everything and [00:16:00] how we could use it together to kind of- drive the performance outcomes that our clients want, right? So, so yeah, so where I'm at right now is, is exactly that, is just more on team mentorship, leadership, and kind of moving things around.

Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: I see. You know what's kind of interesting is you started off with saying that, you know, maybe I would be an accountant or something like that. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And now it's, I hear optimiz- optimizing data, analytics, leading teams, performance, and stuff like that. I'm like, wow, that's still very much that sort of analytical side to it- Yeah

but in a creative space. Obviously, when you're doing marketing or ad campaigns or things like that- Right ... there's the creative aspect, and in entertainment is a different beast depending on your industry, right? 

Simbol: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the- we say it's like, like analyzing data and op- optimization is like an art and science.

You know, the, the science is, like, the data, making sure the data's accurate, you know, and data integrity before you've reported anything, and then you, then there's a sto- storytelling in terms of, like, what is this saying? Like, what is, what is it, what do these numbers mean? Yeah. Like, and then what do we do with this information?

J.R.: Yeah. 

Simbol: [00:17:00] Right? That I love, because it's just like the more data that you have, the more patterns you recognize, the more you see what works, what doesn't work, and what you could start d- building off of and, you know, making more iterations off of or trying something ex- diff- completely different. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: But all aligned with whatever the, the clients want, and I think that's the best part, is when you have good clients who are, like, very collaborative and, you know, and, and trust your input and decision.

When they see you as an extension of their team, I feel like there's a, a harmony that happens where it becomes very productive, a very productive relationship. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: You know? So yeah. 

J.R.: That's interesting. And this might not be a good question, but do you lean more towards y- what you just explained, there seems like to be a, like a numbers, analytical side and a creative side to it.

Mm. Obviously it's like the art-science mashup of that. Yeah. Is there one side you lean more towards, one or the other, or is there another way to look at it? 

Simbol: Mm. Ah. I used to be all about creative, right? Yeah. [00:18:00] Growing up, you think, like, "Okay," like, "I think this is going to be a cool ad," right? But there are times early in my career where I'm like, "What the hell?

How come..." Th- th- like, ad B actually, like, did way better than I thought. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Simbol: And so sometimes we might think subjectively. We're like, "Oh, this is what's going to crush it," and then you put out in the masses, and people are actually resonating with something else, and to me, that's kind of humbling. We're like, "Yeah, I'm not just one person."

You know, like- Mm ... I have to listen to the masses. I- it like, it's not just my input and what I think. It's about what the masses think, and you're like, "Okay." You know, a- and that's why you do A/B split testing, but that's where I started becoming more of a balanced approach- 

J.R.: Ah ... 

Simbol: of, like, art and science versus before I was just about, like, art and- Right

coming up with cool ideas. But the, the science is actually, like, is it really resonating? Is it sticking? D- like, how long are people watching it? Are, are they taking that next action? Are they actually going down the funnel and really taking that next action that y- you want? So, yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: Combining the data and the art to it.

I like that because it's, it's a more [00:19:00] balanced approach of if you want to get to that next level of your career industry or your specialty, it is a balance of the art and the science or the data and the creative, right? 

Simbol: Right, right, and it's like, and sometimes because data can't really say it all, you know?

Mm. And neither does art, so you just kind of have to have- Mm ... like, this kind of understanding of, like, you know, what, you know, what is going to be driving that strategy forward, so yeah. 

J.R.: Mm. It kind of reminds me of I talked to Trandrew about this, where stand-up comedy- 

Simbol: Yeah, yeah ... 

J.R.: the reason why I love stand-up comedy is because it is an art science.

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: At least the way I see it. Because you can look at it on the surface level and think, oh, someone's just kind of talking to the room and being spontaneous. Yeah. And when you realize that, no, this is a scripted set that they practiced and rehearsed, and they turn the dials on these parts, and they formulated it in a way that it feels organic.

It feels like- Right ... they're just talking to you. When in reality it is kind of like a script. But you have to combine both the art and the science on that- Yeah ... because you have to know timing, pacing, structuring [00:20:00] the joke- Yeah ... tonality, et cetera, reading the room- 

Simbol: Mm-hmm ... 

J.R.: bouncing off the vibes, if you hear feedback, et cetera.

Yeah. And so I love that science part of it- Yeah ... but obviously what also gets me is the art of it, of making someone laugh and having that human connection. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And so I think approaching it in that sort of holistic way to me is what makes it super fun. 

Simbol: That's awesome. Yeah. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: Yeah, and, and I mean, you're, you're obviously a very creative person, you know?

J.R.: Oh, yeah. And so- I can't stop. Yeah. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: I want to ask, so before we switch over, is what about lessons, takeaways, insights for someone who wants, who, who thinks, "Okay, what, "What Cymbal does is pretty cool. How do I get into that?" Like, how would you, how would you advise them? 

Simbol: Say yes to a- a- any opportunity.

For anyone who's just starting- 

J.R.: Mm ... 

Simbol: just take those opportunities, build those experiences. You know, when I started, I, I did two internships at the same time because one of them was at United, United Way, you know, like nonprofit organization, and the other one was Flashpoint. United Way was actually where my mom used to work at.

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: And I- it was awesome. I got to see her, [00:21:00] her office, you know? But I said yes to both experiences because I wanted to maximize, like, my, my professional skills and see what's the difference, you know? So for anyone who wants to go into, like, marketing, I'd say take those opportunities. Take, do some internships, get some experiences.

You don't really need to... Sometimes you, you know, you could go through school, but if... You don't always have to go through school. Like, you could just build those experiences yourself, you know? There's a lot of resources out there. You know, just have a vision, learn from people, talk to people, and network.

And because sometimes what you think you might want, you might actually like a different direction. You just have to kind of do it first, and you're like, "Okay, I like marketing, but maybe not this type of marketing. W- I'm learning that I might like social better than search or something." So, you know, just expose yourself to different experiences and, and, and then see what feels right for you.

J.R.: Mm, I like that. Typically, when I speak with undergraduates, the big consideration is, "I think I wanna do this, but also society, my parents, [00:22:00] and economy tells me to do this. Maybe I can find some sort of in between." Mm. And we're also talking about the science plus the art and the creative. Some people might lean more towards creative.

Some people might lean more towards the science or the analytical side of things. How would you approach it in that sense of, like, you're a student or someone is a student, and they're not sure about marketing? This is not the... It's not a doctor, engineer, lawyer. Yeah. But also, I think there's an inherent desire for younger adults to want to do something creative.

'Cause I think we all know- Yeah ... human-wise, we want to be creative. We wanna create and build- 

Simbol: Yeah ... 

J.R.: and not just necessarily be, like, a numbers cruncher, unless that's your thing. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: But how would you, how would you approach it in that sense? 

Simbol: I'd say, I mean, I know this might be cheesy, but people say, like, follow your dreams, follow- do what makes you happy.

I think, you know, there's a lot of things to consider, right? You know, like, for, in my, in my perspective growing up, like, I knew that my body's not gonna last, like, years, right? And there's a part of me that says, "Well, I [00:23:00] also wanna get, like, work benefits or, like, you know, 401, Roth, and whatnot." Mm. So that was what...

That's, means something to me. That I was like, "Okay, so I'll probably do an office job, and I would like to get some, like, benefits and stuff and, but still be creative." So that's why it's kind of like mapping everything out, like, you know, kind of doing a quick audit of, like, what, what fuels me? What can I do, you know?

What do I, like, do for, like, a living that, like, whether it's, like, if I get paid for it or not, like, what is gonna give me that kind of fulfillment and satisfaction? So a lot of it is just kind of reflecting on that and and then getting things in motion. Just trying, you know? So it's just no matter what, like, just go out there, test it out for yourself, you know?

And and just talk to people. You know, just talk to people and get their perspectives, but also do the work to see if, you know, now that your hands, you know, like, hands on keys, like, getting your hands in, that's where you'll kind of figure out, like, do I like this or do I not? 

J.R.: Mm. Yeah. I like that. It's, it's really promoting the idea of get more data, talk to people, [00:24:00] go into the world and try to do something, get that experience.

Simbol: Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: Because you don't, you won't know until you are in there and you know. Exactly. It's like how... You talk to a 16-year-old, how do you know you wanna be a doctor? You're literally 16. Yeah. You've never been a doctor before. 

Simbol: Right. 

J.R.: Maybe it is your calling. But I, it's a, it's a, it's an uphill argument to say, "Yeah, I've been, I was born to be a doctor."

How would you know? 

Simbol: Right. Exactly. That's why it's all about getting the experience and, you know, like, living that life and getting, you know, hands dirty. 'Cause it's like sometimes in our head we're like, "Oh, that's c- that's a cool idea." You 

J.R.: romanticize it or something. 

Simbol: Right. And but that's just the idea, you know?

Talking to people is another data point, you know? But actually doing the work and you're like, "Oh, this is actually a lot harder than I thought. Well-" Can I, do I like this? Is it, 'cause every, there's gonna be a challenge in an- any job that you experience, right? Is this job tolerable, or do I, you know, like, or, you know, does, does it give me overall fulfillment in, in the bigger picture, you know?

And so that, that's something to just re- reassess and to reevaluate as they're going through their journey. 

J.R.: Yeah. I like that a lot. And to add on to the does it [00:25:00] fulfill me or whatnot, I always think of it as like a red light, yellow light, green light sort of thing, where if I'm doing an activity and I feel energized afterwards, that's probably a green light.

Right. If I do an activity and I feel so drained afterwards, that's obviously a red light. 

Simbol: Right. 

J.R.: For me, podcasting is that sort of green light where I'm like, "Okay, I did 10 episodes," I'm like, "Why do I feel like after a two-hour conversation I feel so energized afterwards?" That's a green light, right? And so I, I always promote that to other younger people of, okay, you don't know where you're going.

You're, you're still learning about self-awareness. Try to do a lot of things like what Simbol is saying so that you can f- get a feel for those red, yellow, green lights, and then you go in that direction- Yeah ... see where it takes you. 

Simbol: I really like that analogy, red light, green light. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. So I guess on that point, easy transition into Kaizen.

So I like this a lot, but could you explain to the audience, what is Kaizen and what does it mean to you? 

Simbol: Yeah. So Kaizen, I've learned that in college, a Japanese philosophy of, or for continuous improvement, [00:26:00] right? I learned that in business college, and so that really stuck with me, because for me, I've always wanted to kind of just better my best, really improve myself day by day, and I felt like that was a grounding mantra for me to apply to, like, my family, my relationships, dance, especially dance, you know, and music.

So, every day I wanted to apply that, you know, because I felt like as a student of life, I wanna keep growing. And so that mantra is like, okay, I have to continuously improve myself, which kinda lends itself with performance optimizing, you know, and optimizing my life. 

J.R.: For a creative person, you're very analytical, which I resonate with- 'cause I'm kind of the same, but it's so interesting. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: Go ahead, 

Simbol: yeah. You get it. Yeah, you get it. But yeah, so when I learned that in college, I took that with me to KM, you know? Like, how can I improve myself? How can I improve my situation? You know, not just myself, but for others. So if I see some, some people are in, are in distress, it's like, how can I show up for them?

What can I do to, you know, help them out, see if they need help, [00:27:00] you know? So Kaizen kind of took me to al- to a... It was a good foundation for my life, for sure, and I definitely feel like, you know, I, I, it's, it's something that I feel like I would like you know, to share with others in terms of, like, how we show up for other people and, and whatnot.

So, yeah, with, with Kaizen, I, I feel like I've, I've learned a lot about, Not settling for what is, 'cause some, some days it's okay to be status quo. You know, you gotta give yourself that time to breathe and relax. Rest is also progress. So kaizen to me is... That's why it's like kaizen doesn't always mean consistent improvement, like h- hustle all the time.

Don't get any sleep, keep hustling. That's, you know, there's a healthy way there's a, to improve, right? Mm. That's why, like, when you, if you're sick, take, you know, take that time off. Really relax. That's still improvement because your body needs to catch up to all the things that you've been doing, right?

Get your seven hours of sleep or whatnot, like, that's also improvement, you know? So, every day there's always something to learn, there's always something to grow [00:28:00] into, and that mantra for me has been the catalyst for the growth that I have been at to this point today. 

J.R.: Mm. I like that. I want to ask, this maybe is a bad question, but what is the argument for kaizen?

And I say that because let's say I'm a per- let's say I'm a normal person, you know, no judgment, but I'm like, "Ah, that improvement stuff. That's all woo woo," and- Yeah ... the self-help sort of sphere and maybe it's just a whole sales thing 'cause there's a whole industry around self-improvement. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: But as a person who's like, well, like, what is the argument for me to put in so much effort to, to kaizen myself- 

Simbol: Yeah

J.R.: as opposed to just staying the same or just I need to get something done or finding an easier way out or et cetera. What, what would you say to that? 

Simbol: I mean, to each their own, and so, like, it's not meant for me to tell people, like, what to do. You know, if it's not right for them, it's not right for them.

Maybe not at the moment. Maybe they, they might actually open up to it later and realize, "Oh, crap," like, so, like, maybe they might encounter it later and they're like, [00:29:00] "Oh, I'm trying to better myself." No, that's exactly it. You know, that, that's, that's where y- you know, the door starts opening. So some people might not be receptive to it at first because m- it might just not be relevant, or to your point, there's a certain perspective that they might have that's just, like, kind of blocking it.

But just because it's not there doesn't mean it, it it's meant for them, you know? So it's like, you know, they're on their own path, you know. But just knowing that it is available, you know, to, for people to know that if ever, like, people want to improve themselves, you know, improve their situations and be open to that experience that, that is one avenue that I think would be helpful for for anybody to kind of, adopt because then you could start expanding on, like, what does continuous improvement mean, you know?

D- what does that mean? Like, does that mean getting, like, seven hours of sleep? Does it mean how do I con- self-regulate my emotions in intense times, right? Does that mean, like, I just learn a new recipe? It could mean a lot of different things, right? 'Cause improvement is, [00:30:00] is universal. So, yeah, so for anybody who might be reluctant to improving, that's fine.

It's not m- meant for me to really impose on others, you know? But for anyone who is open to it, then that's it's there, you know, and I'm always happy to expand on it. 

J.R.: Yeah. I like that a lot. One of the things that I've... My personal philosophy is that I do believe that the point of life, the purpose of life is evolution in the sense of growth.

Simbol: Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: Because I think, and again, this is just my opinion, that happiness, which I think everyone wants, is the progression towards a goal- Mm-hmm ... towards growth, towards changing and evolving. Because if you ever noticed when you feel the happiest- probably it's a time where you grew, you achieved something, that you were going towards something, and you, you grew or you evolved, right?

Right. If not just a connection experience with someone else, but it's usually that experience of getting from A to B, no matter what that goal is. It could be climbing a mountain or it could just be going up a hill. 

Simbol: Right. 

J.R.: But I guess [00:31:00] that was, that'd be my, like, personal argument for growth or improvements or putting, I guess, investing a little bit of energy towards self-improvement is because you will find at the other end of that effort is the satisfaction and happiness- Yeah

that you get from that, and I think that's what we all want, right? 

Simbol: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, there's, there's something that we all desire that we want to achieve. Mm-hmm. Yeah, whether it's a status or short-term goal, long-term goal, and that is exactly the, the, the vehicle that's gonna get you there, you know?

So, like, if people are saying, like, "I wanna climb this mountain," right? It's well, like, how can I get myself there? Well, you have to train. You have to train, right? And so, like, how can I improve what I'm doing right now to get me ready to get there? Or simple as, like, workout. Like, man, like I, I just haven't found the time to work out and I don't have t- the time to do this.

But it's like, what can you do in your day then, or throughout the week? 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Simbol: You, you don't have to commit to, like, two to three times, you know, for, like, an hour each session. Like, what are little steps that I could take right now? So- Yeah ... exactly. So it's a, it's used as, like, a [00:32:00] vehicle to help people get, get through in their journey to get to that, you know, end goal or achieve what they're trying to what they're trying to desire.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. How has Kaizen showed up in your life, if you have any pivotal moments? And then I wanna transition also to Kints- Kintsugi, how that manifested or showed up in your life as well. 

Simbol: Yeah, there's, I mean, it's showed up to me in a lot of places, you know? 'Cause when I was directing KM 2008 with Gio and Alabon you know, I always said, like, "Better your best," and that was a part of it, was, like, better your best.

And shout out to Darina 'cause that, that's something that, like, you know, she's one of the newbies in, in our class, and, like, we, we would talk about it, you know? And just how, like, it is a good philosophy to kind of, you know, improve ourselves every day. So I think Kaizen has, im- impacted me in those ways when I'm leading a team with, with people, you know?

And how can I improve myself and so I could show up for them, you know? So it's like even, like, you know, like, [00:33:00] hanging out, you know. Like, am I, am I gonna be super tired the next day, you know? Like, what can I do to reclaim that time to, to sit down and, and sleep a little bit more so then that way I have more energy to give to my team tomorrow, right?

So I'd say it has been- It's, it's hard to pinpoint one exact moment, but it's been with me, I guess, even in my careers where, like, where I'm at today is also a result of that, you know? Starting off as, like, like a coordinator in my career and moving up to senior director, like, it's just every day, like, "What can I do better?

How can I take things on, and how can I learn how to delegate," right? I think kaizen was also, like, before you think el- evolution is, like, do as much as you can, right, to, to get to the next level. But part of it is, "Well, how can I do this efficiently? How can I be smart about this," right? Mm. And so, you know, as, as I moved up, I've, like, learned how to improve myself was if I'm gonna take more tasks on, I need to delegate.

How can I be a b- good delegator of, [00:34:00] of certain tasks? How can I teach somebody without just dumping it on them? How can I make sure that I set themselves up for success, be available for their growth, and then kind of watch them grow, be available, and then s- take a step back, and now they're doing things autonomously?

That is, to me, is like, okay, I f- I found out how to do this effectively, and that's just one, I guess, example in my professional career where, you know, h- kaizen has showed up. 

J.R.: Mm. One takeaway that I really like from that is, especially in a career sense, that Advancing your career doesn't happen by accident.

It happens intentionally. I think people think that, "Okay, if I spend 10 years in this career, I will magically go up, go up the ladder, et cetera." 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: But I found that it's, it's always intentionality in whatever field we're in or whatever area in life. Whether it's your health, you have to be intentional with improving your health.

Yeah. You have to be intentional about improving your career. And obvious- of course, you layer on the whole optimizing your path there and being smart, of course. Yeah. But I think one takeaway that I would like people to take from that is that, even in my own life, everything that I've achieved [00:35:00] was not by accident.

And just like how babies don't come out of the womb ripped, right? Right. Everyone comes out as they come out. But in order to get in shape, it is like, oh, that person intentionally- Right ... designed their life and structure to be that way. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And so I think it's the reactive versus proactive thing that I really like from what you're saying.

Simbol: Oh, yeah. I love... I mean, intention is everything. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Simbol: Right? You set your intention and e- exactly, it's, it's what's gonna ground you. It's gonna, it's go- it's gonna remind you of why you're here, why you're doing it, and why you're still gonna, you know, keep moving forward, right? 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Simbol: I love that. 

J.R.: Okay, so Kintsugi, how did that show up in your life, and what does it mean to you?

Could you also define it as well? 

Simbol: Yeah. So Kintsugi is a Japanese, like, art of bringing broken, like, pieces of, like, pots together by gluing them together to make it... to restore what's broken, right? And how that's shown up in my life is you know, we, yeah, speaking about Kaizen, you grow. You, you grow.

You, you want to progress, right? But what happens when the [00:36:00] life you thought you were gonna live is no longer here, right? Things are gonna fall apart. Things are gonna break. Whether, you know, you know, you try to stop it or not, it does. That's what happens with life. Sometimes life just takes us off course.

And how do I grieve from that? You know, like, how do g- how do I cope with it and give myself that space to grieve in a healthy way? And that's where Kintsugi comes in, is because, yes how do I mend all these pieces together? And some days you're like, "I don't wanna, I don't wanna deal with it," you know?

And there were times, you know, when- I actually didn't wanna just wake up. I, you know, it was like Groundhog's Day. It's just like all over again, and of course I'm not gonna do anything to myself, but it's just, I just didn't have the motivation, right, right? And so kaizen doesn't apply there right now.

It's, it's like, I was like, "No, I don't wanna improve. I, I don't." And this is where I'm like, I have to be okay with where I'm at. It's like, [00:37:00] "Hey, that's okay. You don't have to do anything. You just have to do the s- little things. Wake up, brush your teeth." You know? Like, I'm grateful that I have my job, you know?

And I ha- I'm grateful I have, like, great people and friends around me. But I could still be sad, you know? Those two things can e- exist. Three things can... Many things can exist all at the same time, and I think that's where, you know, I had to learn how to be my, my own best friend. You know, I think during that part of my life- It's almost like I would believe that I'm typically an optimistic person who loves to just give positive energy and, and be happy, you know, and really vibe with people.

But this time it's just like, I can't do that for people. I don't have, I don't even know if I can, 'cause I feel like I have a l- a lot of grief in me that I just, I don't even... I, I need, like my priority is to figure this out and how to, how to make this whole again. And so kintsugi was something that kind of stuck with me, like, [00:38:00] okay how can I just, how can I just like get up, you know, and pick up the pieces, you know?

I don't have to solve everything right away, and it's, it's gonna take some time. And so in that phase of my life, you know, to cope from grief, I wanted to do this sober and as natural as possible because I knew that if I relied on any substance as an escape or a vehicle to get away, I'm not really honoring the human emotions that are within me that I have to recognize and learn how to navigate through, right?

Because sometimes substances can actually lead to a downward spiral. Sometimes it might magnify the, the grief that we're feeling- Mm ... making it seem like these feelings are so true, but then it doesn't feel productive because you're not doing the work to be like, "Well, like, what are we gonna do about this?"

You know? And it, and it just kind of festers. So when I had to cope from grief is really learning how to just give myself space and time, [00:39:00] go out to the beach, explore in nature. You know, it's okay to say no to going out to social events, you know? I don't have to try to be that best friend for everyone.

I have to be that for myself. So all the happiness, positivity, the love that I would normally give to other people, it, it is now turning around and I'm giving it to myself and it w- I wasn't really used to that. And that includes just like dating myself. You know, like, dude, let's take myself out to Laguna Beach.

Let's go out for, for a walk. Let's go out and explore. You know, like, I don't need to bring somebody else with me because it's like, "Hey, I wanna heal. Can you go with me and be dependent on that?" It's just more of like a, I'm gonna do this on my own because I, like I have a lot of feelings within me that I need to process, and I don't wanna bring people down.

When I'm ready, then I'll be able to share th- those moments, you know? But for me, that's where kintsugi came in. It's like slowly but surely I'm taking like one jagged piece and just finding one, another one. [00:40:00] It's like I'm just, I'm just trying to figure out like, like where are these... It's like a jigsaw puzzle now.

Now you're just trying to figure like, all right, I guess this one matches here. So that, like it takes time to really put the pieces together before you could actually put the glue in, you know, and start like mending it together. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: You know? And unless you wanna get abstract with it. That's cool. You could just like create something else.

Right. That's kind of fun, too. But for me, I was just like, okay, like- In my journey, it's been almost like o- over three years now. The first year was very tough because, you know, being on my own I have to learn how to just be okay with my own space. I'm I bought my own home, and when I bought my own home and I brought some of the furniture that was shared, yeah, it was tough, you know?

When you, when you think that these relics, these furniture, these are things, they're inanimate objects, but there's life, shared meaning, and, and history behind it, and when you, when you unpack it and you remember that there's a family that helped [00:41:00] prepare this for you, you know, and it's just like, and that family's kinda not here, you know, in the same way that you thought it was, it hurts.

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: And you have to be okay crying. You have to be, be okay. Like, I had to allow myself - I can't hold myself back. Like, just let it all out. Rip the Band-Aid. Just let it go, you know, and honor the fem- emotions that comes up because it's gonna happen often, but over time it'll heal, and that's a part of healing.

It's kind of like you get a cut on your w- you know, under your arm, right? And they say you apply alcohol on it just so that way it doesn't get infected, right? So i- in that sense it's just like, go ahead, let's put the alcohol on it. Let it sting. Let it burn, you know, because that's a part of the healing path.

You know, that's how I'm gonna heal healthy. So, Kintsugi year one, you know, that's it's, it's me experiencing different seasons on my own. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: And year two I h- had similar experiences where, you know, at my [00:42:00] cousin's party, his, his bachelor party at the end everyone was going home with somebody, and then I was just like, I was like- Mm

"I here I am," you know? "Well, this is it," you know? And I, you know, I, before driving off I had to, you know, I did a lot of video privately just explaining, like, what, what am I going through right now, and the thing that stuck was everyone's going home with someone that they love. And I said, "And I'm going home by myself, and this sucks," you know?

And then a light switch turned around and said, "Well, no, I should also... Another way to look at it is like, damn, I'm going home by myself," right? I, I started - because I've lived through a, a wh- a year, different seasons on my own, so here I am now and, and I realized, no, I, I could go home and play whatever songs I wanna play.

I could fl- you know, I could, you know, do what I want, and I felt more in- more independence, you know, celebrating my independence there. I think I was grieving the [00:43:00] loss of a certain habit of having somebody, a companion there with me, but I grew to... You know, this is now a part of the pieces coming together now.

This is like, oh, shoot. Like, this is the glue now. Mm. Like, okay, I'm starting to understand this now. It's like- independence and identity and reclaiming that identity was probably year two for me in this kintsugi phase where I was like, "Okay, like it's, I'm starting to understand it now. Like now I know where the pieces are and I'm starting to actually put glue on it now."

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: Yeah, and since then, it's you know, like I'm having many more glimmers, 'cause when things are broken, you don't know who you are anymore. You don't know what to even live for. You don't know where to go. You, you keep moving forward, you know? And so, you know, like m- I wasn't really thinking kaizen. I was just thinking just, just get up and move, you know, take it one day at a time.

And then all of a sudden, you know, like, it wasn't until year two when my band and I were trying to figure out some inspirations for our song, right? 

J.R.: Mm. [00:44:00] 

Simbol: And I have a lot of inspirations, you know, with like, you know, I guess like muse, Daft Punk, tuxedo, funk, rock, you know. And I remember sending the guys a, a bunch of clips.

I'm like, "This is what I'm kinda hearing in my head." I'm like, "So we don't have to do it, but like this is what I'm hearing." And as I was showing them all the songs that I, that I'm inspired by, that's when it clicked. I was like, "You guys, I, I think I'm starting to feel like myself again." 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: And I never ha- I felt, I haven't felt that in a long time.

I felt like, yeah, back then I was like, you know, I lost myself and like I didn't know who I am, and like I'd listen to a lot of shared interests. Then I started forgetting all the stuff that makes me happy, and it wasn't until music, you know, just rediscovering the music that I like, that I was like, "No, this is...

Why did I stop listening to this?" And that's when more pieces started coming together. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: You know? And now, now I feel really good about like, this is like 1,000, you know, 10,000 jigsaw puzzle at this point, you know? And like, so like now I got a couple thousand glued together, so. Mm. [00:45:00] Yeah. I'll stop there- Yeah

'cause I feel like I've been talking for a while. 

J.R.: No, it's all good. I like that a lot in the sense of it even seems like when you started this process of putting the pot back together or, or the jigsaw puzzle back together, let's say like you had a few hundred, but it's now like you found more pieces and now you have like 1,000- Yeah

because some of those pieces were probably from earlier on in your life that may have fallen off, but you didn't notice. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And now that everything is back on the floor and you're putting them, so you're like, "Wait, actually there's more pieces than before"- 

Simbol: Yeah ... "

J.R.: and I'm finding and I'm feeling more whole, like myself."

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: Sometimes in phases of life we do change, we leave things behind and- Right ... sometimes we go back and find pieces that we didn't know before. 

Simbol: Right. 

J.R.: And I think that's a very valuable sort of insight that I really like. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: I was going to ask like what... Well, you kind of answered it, but as you're putting together, and I guess maybe for the visual if, if the audience doesn't really get this, but I'm imagining like a, I think I saw it was like also called like wabi-sabi or something, but it's like the pottery where it breaks, you put it back together, but instead of throwing it away you kind of re-glue it and it's like [00:46:00] gold or something like that.

Right. And so when you look at the pottery again, it's not just a ceramic whatever, but it also has like a gold trace where the cracks used to be when you put it back together. Right. And so that's what kinda what makes it even better than before. And more unique- 

Simbol: Yeah ... 

J.R.: is that be- it's, it's more unique and better because it was cracked.

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And now it looks more beautiful 'cause you added the gold onto it- Yeah ... and it's even more enhanced than before. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: So, and, and not only that, but the pottery is now, the pot is now bigger than it was before, 'cause you have more pieces. 

Simbol: You have more pieces, yeah. And exactly. It's, it's it's same pot, but in, s- put together in a different way that you never thought it was gonna look like, you know?

And, and that's the human experience, right? You can't just throw away all the human experience and wanna, like, get rid of it. It's like I embrace everything, the ups and then downs, you know? I embrace it all because that's a part of my journey, right? And, and yeah, th- that's where exactly the gold, you know, the gold glue and stitching them all together.

I'd say in, in, you know, year three, you know, in my Kintsugi phase, it's like traveling, you know, s- doing solo travels, and really, you know, you know, I, you know, I would date myself locally and, like, [00:47:00] go out to, like, Laguna Beach, Dana Point, San Clemente, like, the places that make me feel whole. And then now it's like, well, after owning my home for, like, you know, one, two years, it's like, "Let's get out and travel.

I think I'm ready now." Mm. So making it happen, going to Singapore was amazing, and then visiting Thailand, going to Thailand to visit Chris and Crystal with Mikey. It, it was a part of this experience that, like, I had to, you know, we, I... Year one had to happen so year two and three can b- be... I could thrive in- Mm

year two and three. 

J.R.: Sequential, yeah. 

Simbol: Yeah, and that's where the gold comes in. I feel like, you know, year one is, like, finding all the pieces all there and just learning how to just put them together. Year two is, like, understanding where pieces go and putting a, some glue together. Year three is, like, getting creative with the glue now, and you're like you know?

Like, it's like, okay, maybe I want gold, some glitter on here. Now you're just getting creative because it's taking ownership and reclaiming that, the, the healing journey, that healing process, the grieving process. And year three now is just more of, like, building community. Yeah. Like, now, now b- you can't help somebody if you can't help yourself.

J.R.: Of [00:48:00] course. 

Simbol: Right? And so for me, that's where it's just like I needed to, year one to exist, you know, for me to now go out to different communities. You know, Laguna Beach, I, I do a lot of, like, silent discos with the community where it's, it's a sober experience. I love sober experiences. When there's house music- Mm

there's live music, and it's it's all about just natural joy and energy, you know? It's not meant to have, like, alcohol or any drugs. Like, you come there sober. We do some breathwork. We'll do some movement, and then we'll do a sound bath at the end, and we'll do integration, and we'll all share this experience together.

And that's where, you know, again, more, more gold, more shininess. Like, this is what I've- Mm ... found what joy looks like to me now, you know? And same thing with R&R, Reclaim and Rise. Yeah. It's a lot of us folks who are, like, you know, former dancers, competitive dancers living our lives, coming back together and sharing these moments together and reclaiming that part of our lives together.

And I think that's the, the best gift in the world, is having a community, [00:49:00] many communities that you could share joy and life with. 

J.R.: Mm. I love that. Side tangent, why is it that house music is one of those things that keeps on popping up? That's a weird question. So I'm really into house music. Yeah.

I've been for a while, and now I'm in my phase of my dance where I'm now trying to learn foundational house dance and whatnot, but that's drawing me to these- events, sessions, et cetera, that is house music. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And you know, we kn- we both know Herbie and like going out- Yeah ... like clubbing and whatnot.

And so do you know why, why, what, is, is there something in your personal opinion, what's so special about house music that resonates with you and why do you think it resonates with people such as myself? 

Simbol: Yeah. Honestly, it's, it's hard to pinpoint it to one thing, but it's a multiple multitude of factors of like, for me, the way I interpret house is it's universal.

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: I don't know if you remember Topas in OC- Mm ... back in the days, right? They play house music every Tuesday night. And to me, when you have music that can appeal to [00:50:00] b-boys, lockers, whackers, like it, you could share that, right? Mm. And there's, there's a certain tempo and rhythm, and it's- 

J.R.: There's a universality of house music for those styles that you mentioned- Yeah

'cause I, I totally see that too. 'Cause you can do almost anything to house music. Yeah. 

Simbol: You could, you could do like some loose legs, put some wrist rolls in there. You could do some like waves. You could pop. You could even get down and do some freezes. Like it's universal. And to me, like my experiences with it is like, you know, I've, you sure know, like I try to be as versatile as possible.

I try to learn every style. I try to understand the techniques, and then I'll make it my own. I want to try to make it, the transition smooth. I wanna show, I wanna blend them together in a way that is reflective of how I wanna express it, right? 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: And house music does that. You know? It, it allows me to kind of dive into, like, more, like, the whole count or maybe and count.

But I'm not really thinking mechanically that way, but it's just, like, it's a playground for me to really explore i- and it's open forum. So I think with house music, it just invites people into the house. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Simbol: You know? And so you [00:51:00] don't always have to, like, jack. You, you, you, you might, like, some people might wanna pop or wave.

J.R.: Right. 

Simbol: You know, so it's, there's n- there's no boundaries, you know? And, and I think that's the best part about it for me, and I think that maybe that's why it resonates with people, too. Plus it's also at a higher BPM, so it just kinda- Mm ... you know, keeps, keeps the- Yeah ... rhythm going and s- but yeah. 

J.R.: I like that.

I think I, I, that's a selfish question because I've always wanted to- ... see if anyone can articulate why. I personally love house music. Mm-hmm. And I think you hit o- the, the nail on the head because there is a universality to it. As a popper, choreo, iso house dancer- ... like, as how I de- self-identify in this moment, is that there is so much to house music that you can whack, you can lock, you can house dance, you can pop.

Yeah. And so it's like I don't feel like there's anything missing in there, whereas other genres maybe it is a little bit more of like, okay, this is more meant for locking or maybe a little bit more meant for shuffling or whatever it might be, right? Yeah. But I think maybe that's also why subconsciously I've been drawn to house music is because of that.

Like, it allows [00:52:00] me to play in this playground of- Right ... I can play with the textures and the technique and the styles. Yeah. And people don't really know what I'm doing, but it's like, it's because it's all the stuff that I want to do. 

Simbol: Right. 

J.R.: Right. And i- and house music allows me to do that. Yeah. Which maybe this doesn't make sense to anybody who's not a dancer.

But it makes sense to us two because- ... I've, I've always been like, "Why do I love house music so much?" Like, at the top of the list, like, "What's your favorite genres?" I'm like, "Well, I love groove funk and I love house." Right. And I don't know why those two resonate with me the most. Maybe it's my dance background technique.

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: Maybe it's 'cause the popping in the house, but I don't know, so- 

Simbol: Yeah ... 

J.R.: you helped, like, articulate, I guess. 

Simbol: I appreciate it. No, it's, because it's true. Like, and y- honestly, and you can do whacking to breaks. You- Of course ... you get creative with it, right? Yeah. But I think certain s- music is very prominent.

Mm-hmm. Where like, oh, you hear a break, like, dununa-dun. And so it, you kinda just, like, dive right into it, so that's kind of why with house it's just, it's almost gives a even playing field- Mm ... where it's not so aggressive. Like, like, psh, like, you know, like- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... like, like- Yeah ... kinda l- those hits, you know?

So- Yeah ... it is a little bit more,

J.R.: Not overwhelming in any one direction [00:53:00] necessarily. 

Simbol: Y- yeah, exactly. So I'm, I'm, yeah, I love that you love house and- 

J.R.: Yeah, no, yeah. I'm super, like, I was specifically looking for clubs that play house music. Because normally it's, like, a top 40, it could be an R&B, it could be, like, a whatever.

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: And then those are the normal Friday s- to Sunday ones, but then I'm like, okay, but where are specifically house places? And I've been slowly finding some, but yeah. 

Simbol: Word of Mouth OC, I've been following them for over a year now. Okay. Yeah. It's a married power couple- Yeah ... DJ. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. 

Simbol: And I follow, they have amazing experiences.

It's not, not promo for them, but I guess- Yeah. ... shout out to them. But they play really great house music. Uh-huh. And then the sober experiences that I ex- do in Laguna Beach, Humane Design. Mm. Scott, he's a DJ, plays a lot of house music too. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so I'll, I'll let you know where- Yeah ... where they're at, 'cause I, it, agree, like, for me, Tapas was that back in the days, and then Proof Bar- Mm

in downtown Santa Ana. 

J.R.: Proof, yeah, I've been to Proof a couple times. 

Simbol: Yeah, with Jaswell, our homie. So- 

J.R.: Mm ... 

Simbol: so but now that times have changed, there's this gap where like where can I find it? So it wasn't till, like, last year till I discovered word of mouth [00:54:00] OC Humane Design, you know, BU Collective, all of these.

So if you're ever in S- South OC and you wanna hang out, yeah. 

J.R.: No, no, I'm- Session ... I'm always for it, yeah. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: Okay, so we'll transition to rapid-fire questions. Thank you for that section. It was amazing. We might speed run through this- Okay ... so I know, pick and choose. But first question, billboard question, if you could put up a sign for millions of people to see, what would it say?

Simbol: Okay, speed round. I I don't know why, but love yourself. Yeah. That's the first thing that comes to- Fair ... my mind, yeah. 

J.R.: Self-inflicted wound. Do you have a story about something that's gone wrong and it's your own fault, you can't blame anyone else? 

Simbol: Yeah. I don't know being too, just being too nice Nice

and, and giving pe- not having boundaries, not knowing what, how to have bound- have boundaries. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. If you could redo one thing or give your younger self advice, what would it be? 

Simbol: Keep going. Don't, just trust the process. Keep going, and, and keep, just be true to yourself. Like, believe in yourself and trust your gut. 

J.R.: I like it. How do you define success?

Simbol: What... [00:55:00] I guess it's whatever it means to them, whatever it means to you, you know? Like, it's, success is whatever it, whatever you feel like you want to achieve. Like, even if it's as simple as just being grat- grateful for all the good things that you have and, and appreciating what you have, that's fine.

Mm. So. 

J.R.: How do you define success? 

Simbol: It is an outcome of those things. It's an outcome of kaizen. It's an outcome of, of moving forward, you know, however I live my life. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: You know? 

J.R.: I like that. What's... We might have covered this, but what's something you've been pondering recently or something you often think about deeply?

Simbol: Why am I here? No, really, it's like, what's next? Mm. And, yeah 'cause you don't know. It's like freestyling it now sometimes. Sometimes you know where you're going, some, for next week. Maybe you know where you're, you're doing next month, but what can I do today just to, you know, keep myself afloat? Mm. 

J.R.: Do you know what is next for Andrew Simbol?

Simbol: [00:56:00] Well, in this... Literally, I'm going to Laguna Beach after this. Yeah. And I'm gonna dance with do some ecstatic dance and live music. Mm-hmm. But yeah, what's next is just just taking it one day at a time, really, and keep giving myself these experiences. Be consistent with the things that, that is working.

Mm. So meal prepping, seven hours of sleep, you know, not overworking myself, you know, communicating if, if there's tension, you know, he- like working through my own challenges, you know, and giving myself experiences on the weekends, healthy experiences that are based on sober, you know, experiences, lifestyles that f- give me joy.

J.R.: Mm. 

Simbol: You know? 

J.R.: Do you have a favorite hot take or something that you think most people would disagree with? 

Simbol: Hot take. I don't know. I said this before, I guess. Chase waterfalls, contrary to what TLC says. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. What does it mean? 

Simbol: You know, they're like, "Don't chase, go chasing waterfalls." 

J.R.: Yeah, 

Simbol: yeah, yeah. Go chase waterfalls.

Go, go l- go, go experience life, you know? 

J.R.: Okay. Yeah. So it's like chase experiencing life. 

Simbol: Yeah. Go, yeah. 

J.R.: Gotcha. I like [00:57:00] it. What are... What do you think are some differences between how you see yourself versus how others see you, if at all? 

Simbol: Oh, man. 

J.R.: We're gonna take yourself outside your own body question.

Simbol: That's crazy. Everyone has their own perspective- 

J.R.: Of course ... 

Simbol: of the, myself. 

J.R.: Like, different millions of versions of you based on other people's experiences. 

Simbol: Yeah. It, it, you s- you said it. Yeah. Do 

J.R.: you think there is a... Do you think there's a general gap between how you see yourself? Like, it, is there a s- big disconnect between how you see Simbol versus how other people might?

A- 

Simbol: absolutely, because I've lived this body for 40 years, so I've seen it, myself live those moments that nobody lives. So I, I'm very in- intimate with how I experience things, but it's, it's gonna be different for what people experience and those chapters of my life. They might know me as a college Simbol, and they might see me as, like, work Simbol- Oh

you know, or, like, dancer Simbol, but they're, everyone has their own perspective. Of course. And I don't really need to cater to them. I just need to- Keep being me across those seasons. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. I like that and I totally agree. I think not to dig too deep, but it's more like, I'm curious, [00:58:00] is there a, is there just a general conception of, "Okay, I think people think that I'm a, this type of creative person and I just kind of do other things, and yeah, I generally feel that same way, too.

Or no, actually I'm actually very not creative." Yeah, like, you know, 

Simbol: if you 

J.R.: care. 

Simbol: I'd say people just see me as silly, just- Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... you know? Yeah, they're like, "This guy's probably creative, always thinks something different." You know? Dancer in me would be, like, versat- versatile, you know, as a dancer, but, like, somebody who's just always helpful, down, you know, and, and really I guess, I don't know, empathetic.

J.R.: Yeah. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: Nice. All right last one. Favorite books, movies, videos, articles, media, or anything that you share or recommend the most. 

Simbol: Oh, man. There's a lot. 

J.R.: And it's a light- top, top two or three ... 

Simbol: lightning round. Shoot. Okay. Oh, man. This is gonna be cheesy, but, like, Inside Out. Okay. Like, you could learn a lot.

One or 

J.R.: two? Both? 

Simbol: I mean both. Okay. I just saw two the other day like last year. Okay. And I was like, it... I love that you could see how to, how a story, a narrative about h- complex emotions- Mm ... right, [00:59:00] and how to navigate them. Each emotion kind of shows up as their own character, and then it's, you know, you're not throwing them in the trash.

You're not putting them away. You're acknowledging them, and you're working with them, and I feel like that's a huge visualization of what we're feeling on the inside. So I don't know. I love it. Like it, it's, it's layers deep. 

J.R.: Yeah, no, I, I like it for the same reason, 'cause it's a visual manifestation metaphor of our emotions and feelings and, and maybe a better way to deal with them rather than the normal conception of h- emotions of how we deal with them, which is lock them away or suppress them- Yeah

or ignore them or whatever. 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: But I like that the, the takeaway was every emotion has a purpose- Yeah ... and it should be acknowledged, and you can't just hide it in the basement or throw it away. 

Simbol: 100%, 'cause that's a part of you. Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: Yeah. Exactly, and it's there for a reason, right? 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: All right, you made it to the end of rapid fire.

Congrats, Simbol. Ending question, so gratitude, we always end with gratitude. Shout out to my mom. So, what are you grateful for? 

Simbol: Many things. I'm grateful for you to invite me, include me on your podcast episode 101, right? Solomon for being [01:00:00] here and your equipment and setting this up for all of us.

Grateful for just life, people, and yeah, like, no matter how hard the days are life is still something to be grateful for because it's s- sure, we might experience hurt, but if you just look inside and see what's around, it's just, like, there's a lot of great things out in this world, a lot of great people to meet, a lot of great things to do and explore, and we only have one life unless you're a cat.

J.R.: Then you have a couple more. Yeah. I like that. Where can people find you if they wanna check out what you're up to or connect or anything like that? 

Simbol: Yeah, Instagram symbology, that's me. Yeah, you can find me there Yeah, yeah I was gonna say, like, our, our band, I guess Second Wave Band, you know? Okay. That's, that's us. But 'cause we're working on another EP right now too, so- Ooh Yeah 

J.R.: Exciting 

Simbol: Yeah. 

J.R.: Nice. Yeah, we'll link his social in the show notes, so check that out. Follow him. You'll see what he's up to. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Simbol, so much for being here.

I really appreciate it. Hopefully, you enjoyed this [01:01:00] conversation. I know I did. Yeah. It's always very fulfilling. Like I said, it's a green light because way more energy than before. 

Simbol: Thank you. 

J.R.: But yeah, so I'll do my f- Yeah, sorry? 

Simbol: I appreciate it. No, thank you. This is definitely a green light all the way, so appreciate your time here.

J.R.: Love it. Let me do my final sign-off to the audience. So thank you guys for being here. I really appreciate it. Be sure to like, follow, subscribe, all that fun stuff. Leave Simbol love in the comments below. Leave us five stars. It helps with people to find the show. And reminder to always be kind to other people, especially yourself, and remember that you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen.

So thank you guys for being here.